How to avoid getting screwed as a newbie entrepreneur

Hellen Keller could have built my site better. How I got myself into an online business nightmare and how you can avoid it.

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  Posted by Sunny Thaper, Chandler, Arizona | Apr 14, 2008

  Nicely written! Though its terrible news that you had to endure such horrible treatment, hopefully your plight will help others steer clear of similar situations.
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  Posted by Erin Atherton, Scottsdale, Arizona | Apr 14, 2008

  thanks, sunny. that's the goal.
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  Posted by Avonelle Lovhaug, Shoreview, Minnesota | Apr 15, 2008

  It sounds like you had quite a bad experience. I hope things improve.

  I'm not a web designer, but I have worked for consulting firms that have employed web designers, and I'd agree more with your point about being able to see regular progress than I would on the notion of visiting their offices at any time. In my experience, you'll get a much better indication of progress by looking at results as they happen than you will by standing over someone's shoulder. (Unless you are concerned that they are packing up and disappearing into the night!)
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  Posted by Erin Atherton, Scottsdale, Arizona | Apr 15, 2008

  hi avonelle, thanks for commenting. the issue i have with wanting to be there in person from time-to-time is based on my terrible experience. with the "bad" web firm, they said they had developers on-site. turns out, there's a very good chance they contract it out overseas; i could never actually meet my developers for many random reasons. also, if you visit and witness multiple people around different desks, socializing and watching YouTube, versus working, it also gives you a good idea of their priorities. (this happend, as well.) i definitely have better things to do than watch paint dry, but i'm definitely going to drop in every once in a while to check things out. i'd suggest this for those who haven't been burned, as well. it has much more to do with the culture/work ethic of the company you've contracted than actually checking things off the 'to-do' list. thanks again for reading/commenting!
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  Posted by Avonelle Lovhaug, Shoreview, Minnesota | Apr 15, 2008

  I can see why you might be frustrated by that kind of behavior, especially since they were so late in delivery. And I don't blame you one bit for looking for ways to prevent this from happening again.

  I just think that it would be easy to draw the wrong conclusions by an unannounced visit. Just because people at a company have fun doesn't necessarily mean they are not committed to your project. (In this case it was clearly true, but one doesn't necessarily mean the other.)
  
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  Posted by Erin Atherton, Scottsdale, Arizona | Apr 15, 2008

  i agree with you on that and i'm all about having fun at work (hello, my company is called DURTBAGZ). and if you feel comfortable and like the people you've contracted with, it's doubtful that you'd just drop in, unannounced. it's all about keeping the lines of communication open and having a great working relationship. and i absolutely agree with your comment of one doesn't necessarily mean the other.
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  Posted by Elge Premeau, Portland, Oregon | Apr 15, 2008

  How many times can I vote to get this article up to a 10? This is a story every business owner considering a new website or a redesign should read.

  As an SEO person I do have a few comments about #2 in how it affected your site. Not that you don’t’ have VERY valid points, just to clarify.

  Keywords. The keywords on each page are not the same. A couple of pages have the keywords I gave them, a couple have the craptastic ones they came up with. Oh, and the contract called for 50-70 keywords per page; they gave me 5. – You should not be targeting more than 5 key phrases a page!!! Their contract with 50 to 70 key words (and words are different than phrases) per page promised should be a huge red flag to anyone considering SEO services. A. The page titles don’t contain the correct keywords. - That's a problem. Search engine love title tags. B. The meta tags don’t contain the correct keywords. - If by "meta tags" you mean the key word meta tag, that's not a problem. Search engines don't pay attention to those anyway. The only people you're helping with nicely written keyword meta tags are your competition. If by meta tag you mean the description meta tag, that’s a problem. C. The images have no alt-tags. - This is a big problem on a site with a bunch of images.

  Sorry you got burned. That sucks.
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  Posted by Brandi Pierce, Seattle, Washington | Apr 15, 2008

  It's so terrible that this seems to be the standard. When clients finally find us, they have these same horror stories and I just can't believe how some people can call themselves ethical service providers when they aren't holding up their side of the trust.

  Then again, on the flip side, just recently we had a really hard time with one client who didn't want our feedback or our experience, they wanted the project done the way they wanted regardless of the fact that it was wrong. They never told us this in the initial consultations and we don't want our name on a sub-premium site! So, we have our horror stories, too.

  I know you are already looking into other firms, which is great that you have found people you feel you can trust after such a bad experience, but if you ever want to talk about what we could do for your company, feel free to give me a call. =)

  -- Brandi | 206.829.8790 | aShadow.com

  Web Design, Graphic Design, Photography, Marketing.
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  Posted by Evo Terra, Chandler, Arizona | Apr 15, 2008

  Wow, Erin. I knew you weren't thrilled with the firm when you and I met some three months ago to talk strategy, but I had no idea it was that bad.

  That is teh sux, to the max.

  It's tough for an entrepreneur to find the right firm. I think you're on the right track with tapping the highly-connected community for your next stages. By definition the listen and respond, or else you never would have met them.
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  Posted by Jerry McDonald, Torrance, California | Apr 15, 2008

  Erin:

  Took a look at your site & immediately realized it is just a stylized osCommerce shopping cart. If you're not familiar with osC, it is an open-source (meaning free) e-commerce cart that is very functional and endlessly modifiable. The issues with keywords, meta tags and making the site more SEO-friendly can all be corrected by applying the appropriate "add-ons", which are readily available at http://addons.oscommerce.com. The support forums are at http://forums.oscommerce.com. That would be good place to start looking for an osCommerce guru to work with..there are many reputable & talented that regularly contribute.
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  Posted by Cathy Goodwin, Seattle, Washington | Apr 15, 2008

  Most newbies take the first step by calling a web designer or web development company.
  

  The top Internet marketers (those who bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars each year and some who bring in millions each year) do not spend huge sums on design. Designers shudder when they see those sites. But they do invest in writing copy and in training to write copy.

  As a copywriter, I sometimes serve as the go-between between my clients and their web designers. Or I find new designers in all price ranges.

  It doesn't seem to work the other way. I've rarely met a designer who says, "You need a copywriter."

  A copywriter is lik the quarterback who drives the ball so you score points. Your designer should be your offensive line: making sure the message reaches your readers.
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  Posted by Shea Wilkinson, Plymouth, Minnesota | Apr 15, 2008

  Erin,

  I'm sorry that you were led into such a bad state.
  

  Very cool concept with the bags and the site looks visually appealing.

  I'd be happy to take a look at your site and may be able to help you a bit in terms of SEO and with some marketing tips. I can see a few problem areas SEO-wise right off the bat. I do the same on another site, so it's no big deal. Just let me know.
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  Posted by Robbin Block, MBA, Seattle, Washington | Apr 15, 2008

  Thanks for the horror story. Been there myself and learned a lot in the process. Also hear a lot of the same stories from the students in my workshops.

  I like how you prioritized the issues, that is the first ones are about the people themselves. When you take a project like this on, you must be able to trust and communicate with with the people that are so essential to your core business model. You can avoid the problem all together by using hosted builder tools if your site requires little more or less than an ecomm engine. You can get the site up fast and test the model before spending a ton of money. If the site requires more complex functionality, it may be wise to consider finding a partner who knows web dev -- this way, they'll have a vested interest and deliver more than what's required in a contract.
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  Posted by Erin Atherton, Scottsdale, Arizona | Apr 15, 2008

  wow, GREAT comments from everyone. and thank you for the fantastic tips and offers of help. thankfully, the ball is rolling on improving the site, both SEO and design-wise. it will get worse before it gets better, however, it will be much better when it's all said and done. brandi- the firm i'm going to work with has been in a similar situation as you described, working with a client that was more interested in getting the site up, than getting one that was of any value to them. frustrating, i'm sure. evo-yes...things took a turn for the worse and it was a slippery slope. totally sux. thankfully, phx has some fantastic people here that can help me get out of this mess. jerry-thanks for taking the time to look at my site. i really appreciate it, as well as the links. cathy-cute pooch. interesting perspective and valid point. shea-thanks for offering up your help/advice. i feel very confident that i have surrounded myself with qualified/great people to avoid repeating any of these in the future.
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  Posted by Christine Montfort, Farmington, Washington | Apr 17, 2008

  Good for you to persevere and so sorry you were scammed!

  You are not the only one who has suffered greatly financially and emotionally. I know how hard it is to start your own business and find the help you need to get it off the ground.

  Thanks for saying what needed to be said! Just about all of my clients come to me with the same story (good for me, bad for them). I can't tell you how many "web design" companies are out there just to scam a buck for crappy work and sucky service. It makes me crazy because I care about the success of each and every one of my clients who are usually small, struggling new businesses.

  Your first point is so valid in any situation. If the people feel "ucky" or not quite a good fit for you, look elsewhere. It is very difficult to learn to "go with your gut" and run away or stay and chat.

  I connect to some people who approach me for web design work and others leave me feeling "ucky". The comfy feeling people are easy to work for and work with, while the "ucky" people always turn out to be a nightmare. So it works both ways.

  Hang in there, don't get too caught up in the fear of making mistakes (your best teacher), and we'll see your bagz on the red carpet someday!
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  Posted by Carol Skolnick, Santa Cruz, California | Apr 17, 2008

  Oh gosh, Erin, I feel for you. My first web designer and I were not a good match at all and I knew it (he was an "artiste"), but I was "invested." After awhile he actually fired me as a client, which was good - I was able to hire someone wonderful (Dawud Miracle of Healthy Web Design) and get the kind of website I wanted in the first place.
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  Posted by Ricardo Gartner, Atlanta, Georgia | Apr 17, 2008

  Hey Erin,

  Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. Unfortunately anyone can call him/herself a web designer & developer, and there's no way to check for certification or acreditation. Of course it's always good to ask for testimonials, but even this doesn't always help. Speaking from experience...I've been burned by all kinds of independent "professionals" such as graphic designers, home painters, installers, repairmen, and the like.

  Long story short - I've become very suspicious of any bargains - there's usually a heavy price to pay in the end.

  I work for a national online marketing firm called TruePresence. We develop PPC campaigns to generate leads, develop all kinds of websites and landing pages with extra emphasis on conversions, and e-mail marketing campaigns (to opt-in customers - not spam) to stay in touch with past and current customers, and maintain a relationship.
  

  We have offices in 25 US metro areas, a long list of satisfied clients and a huge portfolio with samples of our work.

  Even if you've already selected another firm for this project, should you have any questions about online marketing please call me and i'll be happy to be of assistance.

  All the best!
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  Posted by Cathy Goodwin, Seattle, Washington | Apr 17, 2008

  I've actually had very good luck with Rentacoder. Often they're very talented people just trying to get started. You do have to have some knowledge and know how to ask for what you want.
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  Posted by David Childs, vancouver, British Columbia Canada | Apr 23, 2008

  Web Designers, Graphic Designers - - vrs- - Branding, Marketing and Strategy. Oh don't forget PR.

  I read most of the comments and wanted to add something in, my company www.livingblueprint.com is a branding agency. One of the main things we fix for companies is fragmented and schizophrenic work done by Web and Graphic designers. They mean no harm and some are immensely talented, but do not mistake them for branding specialists because most are not.

  Branding agencies like Cossette.com in Vancouver or Tribal DDB hire these people to carry out what the strategists/marketers and PR people envision for the brand to be and how to make it effective and give an ROI.

  Web designers make it work, graphic designers make it look great.

  Of course you didn't post your contract so we can't see what they promised and we don't know who they are but it sounds from they way you wrote that you hired a website specialist.

  Next time hire a strategy firm and check their track record. Do they make money for their clients or just pretty websites and graphics.

  One more important note Search Engine Optimization - Hire a dedicated firm to do this. Good ones (really good ones) will require your site to have already been on-line for while, some will charge $10k + per month. Trust me (or better yet dig and research for your self) SEO is reaches far beyond Meta Data and key words.

  Good luck

  PS: yes branding costs more than a 'website' but the odds of getting what you want are really high as the chosen firm will work with you, look for holes in your company and fix them, guide you with deep discussions and debates as to what has worked in the industry and how that could relate to you, your company and of course the market.
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  Posted by Cathy Goodwin, Seattle, Washington | Apr 23, 2008

  I would agree with David's note. These days it's hard to tell who does what and the lines can blur. Good copywriters get into strategy and even edge over into branding. See who seems to understand your business and where you're coming from.

  SEO is controversial. Some people get great returns and I know people who have made a bundle online without ever hiring an SEO firm. The good ones do cost and often they're worth it (depending on whether you've got a real market that shops online).
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  Posted by David Childs, vancouver, British Columbia Canada | Apr 23, 2008

  Cathy, I like your point you posted before about copywriters.
  

  If you are building a site don't assume your Web or Graphics person is trained in writing and positioning. You will be angry with them when they do a bad job.

  Basically, that is not their job. Build a team. Even Branding and positioning companies gather up writers, SEO specialist, programmers etc... to help with jobs.

  Follow their lead.

  David