Best style guide for writers?

Hi Deidre,

Great question.

For us, it varies. Some clients, such as large hospitals, have an organization-wide policy on style and they expect us to follow it. I am a contributing writer for two local magazines and a business newspaper and they require us to use the AP Style Guide. When we work with small biz owners who have no policy, I use the AP Guide.

I also like Elements of Style. It's a great, concise overview of the basics. I think it's important, regardless of the style you choose, to stay with a consistent one for all a business's materials.

The extra comma is right where it is supposed to be: as a delimiter between three (or more) things.

"Into the bag went the oranges, apples, and bananas."

Let's hold hands and chant it together: "The extra comma is not extra, it is correct. The extra comma is not extra, it is correct."

Also, the conflict between quotes and punctuation is an easy one to figure out: What is between the quotes is representing what the person said.

For example:
• "That was amazing", he said. (He did not say the comma, so the comma is not inside the quotes.)
• "That's excellent!" he exclaimed. (He said the exclamation point, so it is within the quotes.)

We know we are right, right Deidre? Just keep chanting it... we will prevail...!

< writing geek mode OFF >

Thanks Christian - another rule I've routinely broken. Since I didn't know the comma rule I always put it inside the quotes because it looks goofy to me being on the outside. So much for looks:-)

DD

Okay, was going to let the comma thing go, but now I have to step in. The appropriate placement of commas and periods in a quote are always BEFORE the quote, never after. It isn't just AP Style Guide rules. Pick up any fiction (or nonfiction) book and look at a line of dialogue. You'll see the punctuation marks inside the quotation marks:

"Be afraid. Be very afraid," he said.

On the commas in a series of words, there are still two accepted ways. The AP guide says leave off the last comma before the word "and." :

apples, oranges and bananas

But it's still acceptable to use that last comma:

apples, oranges, and bananas

Hope this helps.

It's always nice to have a choice: once again, looks-wise, I like the "apples, oranges, and bananas."

But that's just me.

DD

I'm not the expert here, I pretty much leave that up to my partner, Judy : )

But when looking at this last comment Dennis, when it comes to punctuation, I like to read it out loud and see how it sounds. Sometimes the results can be very enlightening.

For example

Do you read it....

apples (pause) oranges (pause) and bananas

or

apples (pause) oranges and bananas

Same thing thing goes with the overuse of exclamation points -- which I find everywhere. If you find a paragraph with one at the end of each sentence, and read each sentence with that emphasis outloud...well, you will see what I mean.

It sound ridiculous! (sorry, couldn't help myself)

~bob

WOW Even great writers have a differnce of use/opinion/rule following element to their work too!!

"I LOVE THAT," said the woman who dislike comma's anyway!

Deidre, I will deflect to the experts because I am with you on the whole comma thing. My 15 year old AP student helps proof and gets seriously "annoyed" with me when I don't place comma's right - apparently there is a rule around how you use them inside and outside of parenthesis too!!

Hence, I have a great copywriter in Judy Dunn, and between her and my daughter...I am set!

Good Luck Happy Writing! Tammy

I think this is the (good) point that Bob makes: write it the way you want it to be read, and understanding will be enhanced by the reading. I don't think your options are a black and white either/or (you probably don't either:-) One would have one meaning; the other would have another.

Here is another point. I took a college English course once and there were two conclusions I came away with. First, use all those punctuation marks to have fun and liven things up, give variety and add flavor. Second, there are so many rules and so few people who actually know them, that it really isn't that important. (I doubt that the teacher meant for me to come away with that last impression, but...)

Nowadays, standards are so low and really good writing so rare that it seems to matter little. And is it really worth it to write like George Will if the end result is that you lose half your readers and the other half have to grab a dictionary?

I think not.

Deidre - great topic! As a new publisher, I have battled with this very thing over and over again.

AP styles is good to follow although, in my opinion, if you want soul or a personality in your writing, don't stick to the AP styles strictly - but then again, just my opinion from what I have learned.

When we did our first teaser issue of id Magazine - I let an Editor-In-Chief from the newspaper world run and deal with all of the writers and written content.

After picking up that magazine, and reading it as a reader, I was not exactly happy. (During production, I had no time to actually read the articles) There was no personality, no opinions and lack of any sort of pizazz. Yes, my fault, but it was a lesson learned for sure.

Because a newspaper mind was running that, and not a magazine mentality - we lost the writer's voices along the editing process. Magazines are quite different, you do pick them up to get opinions and such. Newspapers present facts and mostly just that.

Unfortunately, I fear Dennis' statement to be true, "Nowadays, standards are so low and really good writing so rare that it seems to matter little." A lot of writing you pick up today is so, how shall I say? Dumbed-down! 6th grade level I think is the norm in newspapers - I could be wrong.

I'm going to check out Judy's suggestion, "Elements of Style" - and see what I can pick up from it.

Good luck to you!

Yes, Deidre, this is a helpful topic and I too appreciate you bringing it up.

What Christian said is so important. Funny, not too long ago, I became a freelance report for a business newspaper and a contributing writer for two magazines. I was instructed to follow AP style book, which is what most publishers adhere to.

But I am a firm believer that, no matter which set of guidelines you go with, you can still keep your "voice," your personality, as you say. I only use the AP style book for the mechanics. For instance. does Internet have a capital letter or not (AP says it does), where and how do you use commas, etc.

Magazines are by nature more friendly, people-focused publications. But even with newspaper articles, it's possible to write in a style that holds the reader's interest. Frankly, I think more people would read newspapers if they weren't so "dry."

Christian, I think you need an editor who understands "voice" and can find and nurture writers who have interesting (even entertaining) things to say. And, yes, opinions. I've found that a writer with an alternate view on a topic, can engage readers and extend the thinking/interactions (ever read some letters to the editor?)

Two writers I managed in the late 1980s gave me The Elements of Style as a birthday gift one year. I still keep it close by. It's just a good, basic overview of usage, composition, form, and commonly misused words and expressions (further/farther, effect/affect, etc.) The last chapter, "An Approach to Style," actually gets into style in a broader sense: style that reveals a writer's uniqueness, that lets you write in a way that is most natural for you.

Wondering if your magazine has an online edition. Would love to check it out.

Living overseas for a number of years and working for two publishers while there, I got used to using the British conventions when writing. You see them in The Economist, which is generally what I use as my personal style guide nowadays.

After moving back to America it took me for EVER to remember to replace all those British "s" letters with "z" again! (organise vs organize, for example. Check out what Wikipedia has to say on the subject. Fascinating!)

Christian,

I absolutely love the ways the Brits spell! In fact, a twitter friend from Toronto recently thanked me for a reference I made to one of her "favourite" TV shows from the 80s. Somehow that word looks a little more classy than "favorite." :)

But it must have been hard to switch back to American spellings. I can only imagine.

Deidre, if you do much online writing, you may be interested in The Columbia Guide to Online Style. This is a link to the 2006 version at Amazon where you can get one for under ten dollars (including shipping).

I use an older version that's a little easier to carry around than the Chicago Manual of Style (!).

In the end, a style guide is about consistency, right?

Sometimes a publication dictates which style guide is used (if any) and thereby brings consistency to the publication even when many are writing for it.

Other times, a writer's favorite style guide helps bring consistency throughout her pieces of writing.

And then there's my own style guide--an amalgamation of rules that I have gathered from here and there which I find logical, sensible, or practical, e.g., whether you serial comma or not, please do it the same throughout the document.

I would use AP, but make sure it's recent, especially if you are doing most of your writing online. Things like web site are now website. I recently started one on my Webmaster Wiki, but it's still a baby. You could help define it! http://www.bestwebimage.com/wiki/index.php/Style_Guide