Quicken vs QuickBooks and the Mac?

Hi Biznikers,

I'm in a quandary. I'm sure like many of you, I use QuickBooks for my business accounting. But as a designer, I am not hard wired like an accountant and find QuickBooks a major pain in the butt compared to Quicken. What are the rest of you using? I love Quicken which is easy to use and I can get any type of information I need from it without problem. The added frustration is that they don't talk to each other so I paid far more taxes this year because my personal expenses were not counted (in spite of my CPA's best efforts). Intuit DOES have a Quicken Home Business product but only for Windows. I've paid my account for her time to teach me QB, but I don't speak accountant and I'm just not wired that way. There are so many designers out there; all on Macs. There's got to be a better way. Any ideas? What are the rest of you doing?

16 Bizniks have posted replies

Posted by John Huddleston, Seattle & Bellevue, Washington | Jun 11, 2008

Barbara, Quickbooks dominates the market. Most small businesses of any size are using it. I wouldn't recommend Quicken for your business but I understand your frustration. By personal expenses, I assume you mean deductible business expenses that you paid from your personal account. Have you considered writing reimbursement checks to yourself from Quickbooks. That way, your books are automatically updated with all deductible expenses.

John Huddleston

Huddleston Tax Consulting

Tax Accountant & four CPAs on a mission to reduce small business tax

3 CPAs & Tax Accountant in Seattle, Bellevue & Tacoma
Posted by Leila Anasazi, Seattle, Washington | Jun 11, 2008

I'm curious how this conversation goes. We just updated to Quickbooks 2008 and abhor the new program.

Leaf springs hand-crafted in the US
Posted by PJ Harris, Seattle, Washington | Jun 11, 2008

In my humble opinion the choice depends on how complicated your finances are. For instance if you don't have employees and all you need to do is put your income and expenses into catagories then Quicken is probably just fine for you. If you have employees and need to track invoices then you might need to use quickbooks. For my massage business I use Quicken and for our family paint contracting business we use Quickbooks.
Posted by Arthur Torelli, Seattle, Washington | Jun 11, 2008

I don't see why you can't use both. The personal expenses for business use is one line on you P&L. Just take that number out of Quicken and plug it in your tax form. Art T.

Helping you get money.
Posted by Rebecca Wood, Lynnwood, Washington | Jun 11, 2008

Going from memory here cause I started 10 years ago... but I used quicken at first...for a brief period of time. It just didnt suit my needs and was basic at best. I have been using quickbooks for several years now and love it.

It may be beneficial to take a basic accounting class so you understand debit, credits and such. I have been bookkeeping for well over 20 years so I understand most of what quickbooks entails.
Posted by Barbara Saunders, Portland, Oregon | Jun 11, 2008

Thanks for the posts guys. It's good to know I'm not struggling on my own. I think I've got two issues against me. One is unfortunately the programs are basically Windows based and just cobbled together for Mac users so they don't coordinate properly for taxes which is why I got plastered this year. AND as a creative, I'm wired significantly different from an account which makes it hard. I have actually taken several accounting and bookkeeping classes - thanks Rebecca. The issue is not with credits and debits but with how to get the information needed out of the programs. Quicken is far more intuitive (like a creative professional).

Your suggestion of writing checks back to the business is excellent, John. That very well may be the solution. I hate to have to do tasks twice, but this may be one instance where it's necessary. I make it my mission to make everything in my life as simple and straight forward as possible. Finances - and accounting - is my major challenge, so your input is really helpful.

Much appreciated, Barbara
Posted by John Huddleston, Seattle & Bellevue, Washington | Jun 11, 2008

Barbara, If there are significant deductible expenses that are not included on your tax return, why don't you amend?

John Huddleston

Huddleston Tax Consulting

Tax Accountant & four CPAs on a mission to reduce small business tax

3 CPAs & Tax Accountant in Seattle, Bellevue & Tacoma
Posted by Barbara Saunders, Portland, Oregon | Jun 11, 2008

Actually, I've got an appointment with my CPA at the end of the month to look at that. That's part of why I was researching options to QuickBooks, too. I had significantly reduced business expenses last year too, so we're reviewing all of that. My frustration with QBs is that I've coded things to the correct accounts and categories, but can't get the info back out that I need to really know what's going on. I find Quicken's reporting far more accessible to me. Evidently, they've got a new version coming out in August for Mac but all they'll say is that it has 'some' of the features of Quicken's Home Office version.

I understand the accountants preference for QB because it speaks their language. The problem is that we need a program to help run our business and get useful info on our finances out of. Not being an accountant, QB doesn't do that for us. I've already invested a lifetime in gaining education and degrees in my field of expertise, I don't have the desire or time to go learn to become an accountant. There's a huge opportunity for a programmer here, don't you think? hint, hint. :-)
Posted by Avonelle Lovhaug, Shoreview, Minnesota | Jun 11, 2008

I know exactly what you mean. I personally use Quicken Home and Business as I am a windows user and my accounting needs are not sophisticated (I don't have inventory, etc.) I have looked at QB for some software development work I am doing for a client, and I know it is overkill for my needs.

There was a discussion on this topic at FreelanceSwitch in the forums. http://forums.freelanceswitch.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=24&page=1#Item_33

Since several freelancers there who post are mac users, perhaps there will be a suggestion there that will help.
Posted by Barbara Saunders, Portland, Oregon | Jun 11, 2008

Thanks Avonelle. It's just nice to know there are others out there suffering from the same issues. The more I hear, the more Quicken H&B is the real answer.

Thanks for recommending Free Lance Switch.
Posted by Madeline Bailey, Bellevue, Washington | Jun 22, 2008

The reason you're having a hard time is because you feel like you "know" Quicken and hare having a learning curve with QuickBooks.

I have to use Quicken for my investments, and it took me 1.5 years to get up to speed, and I still can't it to give me ROI the way I want! Arragh!

But there isn't a single thing I can't do or fix on QuickBooks. Alot of my work is going in behind people who made it look like rocket science because they weren't very good at it themselves, so they couldn't think how to make it simple for the business owner. It's really very simple, and simpler still if you have a smaller business. I use it for my personal finances. I use it for a CEO who just wants me to type in his paychecks and check register at year end. Actually, his wife who hired me, so he could get his taxes in on time.

I recommend you keep hacking away with QuickBooks. Even if you're making mistakes now, you can fix them. If you can't afford to hire trainers, there are other ways to learn. My book is an accounting book but accounting is half the battle. It speaks your language and you'll see why you'll want to be able to add assets, and liabilites now, and maybe more in the future. You can have friends show you what they know. You can barter. There are QB books in the library. And it's not as if you have to be perfect at QuickBooks today. Once again, people come to me pulling their hair out, and get almost angry when they find out it's as easy as they thought it should be.

You can do time tracking in QB, which is awesome for most small business owners, and you can produce financial reports that everyone in the business world approves of. Say you want to get an SBA loan someday, or take on a business partner, or sell your business, or whatever great things the future may hold for you.

Quicken H&B is basically a glorified check register. While your business may be simple now, if you stay with it, you'll never have to learn new software again, no matter how little or how much you grow your business.

I'm suffering ACT! software right now, and I'm doing the same thing I'm advising you to do. It's a pain and an investment, and I'd love to back out, but I know moving forward is the right thing to do.
Posted by Barbara Saunders, Portland, Oregon | Jun 23, 2008

Sorry to contradict you, Madeline, but I actually started my business out with QB nearly 8 years ago!!!! I've taken class after class. It's not a question of not 'getting' QB. It's a question of the right tool for the right person. You're an accountant. QB is a program for accountants.

I'm finding this is the entire issue. We have different internal wiring. My absolute frustration with QB came to a head this year but it's been boiling under the surface for years. I've done a search of forums all over the country and found that it's the same for creatives everywhere. QB is not the right tool for us. We need to be able to control our finances and to get useful information from the program. I have spent my life investing in my education and have earned many degrees including a masters. I have also spent more time than I care to think about being hammered into this 'accountant's' software. This is unacceptable.

The account uses the stupid program once a year to do taxes. I have to fight with it every day AND because it's too much to expect this program to coordinate with my personal accounting software (made by the same company!), I've ended up paying way more taxes this year. That's poor performance.

Accountants get this message: You're job is to meet OUR needs. Not to force us into YOUR mold.

Intuit is really hurting itself my not only ignoring the issue, but ignoring Mac users at the same time. People are switching to Macs in droves for much the same reasons: More stability, easer to use = better tool. There are tons of new software companies popping up all over the world to deal with this issue. Remember what happened to IBM? They thought they were so big that they could dictate to the buying public. They said forget computers, we'll make people use typewriters - that's what professionals use. When's the last time you've seen anyone using one of those. Do not dictate to your clients.
Posted by Madeline Bailey, Bellevue, Washington | Jun 26, 2008

Sorry if I came off as someone who dictates anything to anyone. I love freedom so much that I have removed "should" from my vocabulary. It doesn't appear in my book either.

Ironically, I'm your biggest advocate! I spent years writing a book (at a huge cost to me, and no profit yet) because I agree with what you're saying!

Please forgive me. Where I was coming from is having done so many jobs where i walk in and the client feels like QB is rocket science, only to find out how simple it is. Some are artists. My gift is to make what seems technically complicated, simple. If you read testimonials on my website you'll see that readers say the same thing about the book.

If you feel that Quicken is the right accounting software for you, by all means, use it.

I mis-read you. I thought you wanted encouragement. I'm going through upgrading my ACT! software. It's a real pain and investment, but I know it's the long term right thing to do. I needed some encouragement and luckily, someone gave me some.

I have friends who use Excel, and swear by it. I would never contradict them either, ha, ha.
Posted by Barbara Saunders, Portland, Oregon | Jun 26, 2008

No problem, Madeline. This QuickBook issue has been so stressful for me. I ended up paying 3 times more taxes this year and a lot of it surrounds the fact that I can't get the information out of QB that I need in a usable form. Searching the web, I'm astounded at how many of us are having the same struggle. It's frustrating that Intuit isn't listening. They can do so much better, but choose to ignore the situation and just dictate their QB on us.

I think, as creatives, we try so hard to fit into square holes just so we don't look dumb. We're not dumb, we just assimilate information in different ways and in the end the square holes end up doing us more harm than good. We need round holes and triangular holes. It's when the creatives start whining that the world changes. That's actually how Apple came to be - and the internet - come to think of it.

Good luck with ACT. I used to love that program. I thought it was gone.

Barbara
Posted by Paul Spafford, Ottawa, Ontario Canada | Jul 01, 2008

Hey Barbara,

If your Mac is one of the Intel chip ones, you can install Parallels and run Windows as a application (as a Mac user myself, I know that's an abomination, but it gives me access to some Windows apps that I can't live without). That would give you access to the Window version of QB, if you feel more comfortable with that.

As an alternative, have a look at MoneyWorks. Some of the people who originally designed it fifteen years ago were old Claris programmers who had worked on FileMaker Pro -- the best database application out there, in my opinion -- which is very user-friendly and actually owned by Apple!

I'm a FileMaker developer and went to a two-day session in Toronto about 18 months ago put on by MoneyWorks -- showing how to integrate it with FileMaker. The session was good, but the thing that hit me the hardest was how amazing the interface was! It's unlike any accounting software I've ever seen -- by far the easiest to work with -- and it works the same on PCs and Macs!

I have the rare advantage/disadvantage of having an analytical AND a somewhat artistic side. I used to be an accountant, and am now a database developer. This software appealed to both sides of my personality. It also appealed to all the accountants, salespeople, developers, and artists in the room.

I was talking to one of the head programmers during a break about how easy it is to get at your data, and he said something along the lines of, "Most accounting software feels the need to hide your data. We feel that once you've entered your password to get in the software, you should be able to get at all your data easily -- it's your data after all."

Sorry to sound like an evangelist or salesperson. It's just very cool software. The only reason I'm not using it is because my business is VERY simple, and I've developed my own database for what I need.

Paul
Posted by David Krafchick, Seattle, Washington | Jul 11, 2008

I have decided to chime in here because no one has asked about Sole Proprietor status which allows you to use your personal accounts. You do need to keep accurate records. I actually created Nimbleland as a paid account. Any time someone pays me personally for a job, then I list it under Nimbleland. Then at the end of the year, I can bring up all my activities and get my taxes in order.

I do use Quickbooks to gernerate Invoices for Brake Director LLC and Nimbleland. This way I can cross check my activities and again get my records in order for my Local, State and Federal taxes.

I do not use the check writing feature. Again I used Business Checks from Bank of America. Third way to cross check.

For anyone that is interested, the IRS has a CD that walks you through all the different options from Sole Propietor to LLC/LLP to Corporation and S Corporation. You ccan pick it up at any IRS Office (It might be a DVD by now). It will answer all your questions.