Seattle Community

<span class="supporting_member_name">Kevin Selkowitz</span>
Kevin Selkowitz
Big Phones for Small Business
Bellevue, Washington
Posted by Kevin Selkowitz, Bellevue, Washington | Jul 04, 2008

Subscribe to Community-wide general discussion 10 Things to Like about $4 Gas

There's been a few threads here about the high cost of gas and its effect of people's business. I've taken the viewpoint that the pain now will be a boon in the near future.

Time just had a great article on some of the benefits of $4 gas. What do you think?

11 Bizniks have posted replies

  • Barry Hurd
    Posted by Barry Hurd, Seattle, Washington | Jul 04, 2008

    I know gas is a pain (I average 2k miles a month on my car)

    I don't really agree with the article on most points. Sure the $4 gas is an economy shifting element, but it is also the life blood of many civil problems affecting the lower class of America.

    I like to remind people (especially on the 4th of July) the the USSR fell apart mostly in part due to massive and uncontrolled oil price increases.

    While many of our middle and upper class can afford the luxury of shifting our way of life to be most cost effective, one of the main qualifiers of income is education and intelligence- which means that it becomes less likely that lower class citizens take the initiative to think outside of the box and take options which are not readily apparent.

    There is also a strange shift in the economy where information is becoming a more valued commodity in the business world as it as an ever increasing profit margin (no shipping, no employee location needs, etc) that allow for a new era of stock brokers and financial specialists to evolve. My own career working with social media is very similar in function to a stock broker working with numbers from Google instead of the NASDAQ.

  • Kevin Selkowitz
    Posted by Kevin Selkowitz, Bellevue, Washington | Jul 04, 2008

    I think though you're mistaken the class analysis. The upper class doesn't have to shift lifestyle because of a increase in gas cost - an extra $20 to fill the BMW 750Li isn't a blip on the radar. Hell, I know people who don't even care that filling the boat went up another $200.

    The lower class was probably feeling the pinch of gas long ago, assuming they aren't using mass transit. Admittedly bus fare has gone up too, but not as great a percent as gasoline.

    The middle class is probably feeling it more. A few years ago they could overextend themselves with a loan on a giant SUV and a big new home in Monroe - even though they work in Seattle. But they have choices to change vehicles, move, change jobs, telecommute, etc.

    Some of the points in the article are a bit weak (I doubt expensive gas will affect obesity significantly) but it has reduced traffic, traffic deaths, pollution, etc - all good things. If nothing else, people are being far more conscious of their decisions.

    In the next few years this will also lead to significantly more efficient cars. Plus less expensive, cleaner, domestically produced alternate fuels.

  • Judy Dunn
    Posted by Judy Dunn, Renton, Washington | Jul 05, 2008

    I read the Time Magazine article and it seems to be written from the perspectives of the upper-middle and upper class.

    The poor have traditionally congregated in the urban areas and have always conserved their resources, but they have no control over these spiraling gas prices.

    Some of the Time Magazine points:

    • moving closer to cities- welcome to the world of the poor.

    • Less pollution- definitely a plus, but at what price? Some people are in danger of losing their jobs because they can't get to work.

    • More frugal- again, hello? Some people can't be any more frugal than they are.

    • SUV sales are dropping- why in heaven's name did they create this gas guzzler in the first place?

    • Fewer traffic deaths- now that is really a benefit.

    • Cheaper insurance- good luck with that. We normally work three days a week from our home office, but have gotten no break in car insurance premiums because of it.

    • Less obesity- They predict a cut of 10% in obesity rates, but I think that is only if gas prices remain high over the long term. It has been proven that the minute gas prices drop, the walking to work and other physical activity drops as well.

    I agree with Kevin in the fact that this may force us to rethink our habits and attitudes, but only if there is enough pain over a prolonged period of time. I still worry about those minimum wage folks, though. They are barely surviving as it is.

  • David Krafchick
    Posted by David Krafchick, Seattle, Washington | Jul 05, 2008

    The Changing of Habits is either forced upon us by economic issues, limited resources that are shrinking, and for the well off or gas and oil, ignored.

    The Car Industry created their own fate, by driving the public toward the SUV. The Prius has been around for how long and has been given a tax credit for how many years? I have been told and have read that gas with be stretched and reformulated where you will pay $10 (They are paying $9.90 in Europe) but you will get 100 miles to the gallon.

    Now GM is struggling. They cannot and have not transitioned to a smaller car and cannot meet the demand that will be growing in the next say 18 months. There is talk of one or more going out of business. I don't see that happening any time soon. But only the Japanese have made the nimble changes in the new gas economy.

    I myself have to maintain a car for Brake Director. Recently we had to supply action shots for an article about us. I contacted the Captain of the Seattle Bike Police and started the ball rolling. Ultimately I had to load the bike on my rack and drive down to Westlake Mall to meet the Officers and shoot the pictures. I did not hesitate, but there are times when I will not see a return of my time or my costs. And that means the bus for the easy stuff.

    And if the video depositions ever take off, I cannot take my equipment on a bus - so something will need to change soon.

    I do not see a fast shift. I see a very slow agonizing shift that will not only hurt the nation, but could be a financial nightmare for many industries and individuals. Few people will be insulated from this. We are no longer as nimble as we need to be. We are so tied into the Oil and Gas Industry that it will take a major shift in transportation and new technologies to shore up the the present infrastructure and/or shift into a new infrastructure that will open up and expand our Transport options.

    It's being talked about in Seattle as of this moment. Streetcars, Light Rail, more than one line - so there is a slow shift coming. Light Rail to the Airport opens in 2009. Park nearby and....save gas, parking...... It's coming.

  • Kevin Selkowitz
    Posted by Kevin Selkowitz, Bellevue, Washington | Jul 05, 2008

    Honestly I don't understand why GM gets the beat down in the court of public opinion. The "nimble" Japanese like Toyota jumped just as badly on the SUV bandwagon - they have six SUVs and they kept getting bigger each version.

    And the Japanese haven't made the right decisions with their 08 product introductions (admittedly the decisions leading to these products were made ~3 years ago). Toyota introduced the new Tundra with a 5.7L V8. The new (Toyota) Scion xB gained 600lbs and dropped fuel economy 5MPG in C/D testing. Honda made the new 08 Accord bigger rather than trimming the size and improving economy.

    Meanwhile GM is matching or beating the Japanese cars economy in every class, rolling out the largest public fuel cell fleet in the US, and probably beating every major automaker to market with a plug-in hybrid. They're bringing over more small cars (new Aveo5, Beat) and introducing new even more fuel efficient engines like the 1.4L turbo for small cars and 2.9L diesel for the Caddys.

    I'm not saying GM is perfect, but they're moving fast on many fronts to be on top of this situation. If any automaker deserves to be singled out for being behind the 8 ball its Chrysler.

  • Victoria Rhoades
    Posted by Victoria Rhoades, Woodinville, Washington | Jul 05, 2008

    Aren't the GM hybrid and all-electrics, another couple of years out yet? Until I see them and how they perform, I'll hang onto my little Toyota hybrid.

    as for loading up a bike to get to downtown ... did I read that right? that was all you needed to get downtown, David? Bike trails lead most of the way into downtown. (apologies if you needed to pack a bunch of equipment with you, though)

    edited to add: I like it that the traffic has calmed down considerably -- but I agree that this is hitting people who didn't have enough money to start with, pretty hard. You can only conserve so much more money, and most of us need to at least get to work and back, and to the grocery store, etc.

  • Kevin Selkowitz
    Posted by Kevin Selkowitz, Bellevue, Washington | Jul 06, 2008

    GM has the mild hybrid Aura and Malibu currently out. On the larger side they have dual mode hybrids of the Yukon/Tahoe and soon Escalade and Vue.

    The plugin hybrid Volt is due in 2010, so that's probably what you heard was a few years out.

  • David Krafchick
    Posted by David Krafchick, Seattle, Washington | Jul 06, 2008

    Victoria,

    It was Equipment plus the bicycle - which by the way was not set up for me to ride. When we do a Bike and Network ride, you will see that I needed special adjustment to the right side of the handlebars, the gearshifts all to the left and a right petal that secures my right foot as I pedal. The bicycle we used for the action shots is exclusively built for Bicycle Police by Volcanic Bikes and has no adjustments for my limitations except a Brake Director.

  • David Krafchick
    Posted by David Krafchick, Seattle, Washington | Jul 06, 2008

    The key to any Electric Car is the Infrastructure to support the car and make money for the company. The last time they tried it was in California at the turn of the Century with a 0 emissions tolerance. The Car Makers lobbied until they could change the law. They leased every car, then did not renew them. They repossessed every car, then crushed all but one of them(one is in a car museum, but they removed the engine).

    So just think. If GM had sold the EV-! and supported it and sold it to the public, would we be in the same boats sinking slowly?

  • Victoria Rhoades
    Posted by Victoria Rhoades, Woodinville, Washington | Jul 06, 2008

    ah, David, I was unaware of your limitations.

    there is a movie out, Who Killed the Electric Car about the EV-1 and GM in California.

    let me know when the next bike and network ride is, I'd dust off the bike in the garage that has lain fallow since my last STP (several years ago).

  • David Krafchick
    Posted by David Krafchick, Seattle, Washington | Jul 06, 2008

    Victoria,

    I think we have met - so I will take that as a compliment - and yes, I saw that specific film at SIFF several years ago and on cable with new footage recently. I recommend it to all that are interested in the issue.

    As soon as David Hawkins returns from California, we'll start planning for a bike ride.

This forum is unmoderated, but please keep discussion courteous and not too far off topic.

Members posting in this topic

  • Barry Hurd
    Social Media Promotion and Training
    Seattle, Washington
  • Kevin Selkowitz
    Big Phones for Small Business
    Bellevue, Washington
  • Judy Dunn
    Expert Copywriter
    Renton, Washington
  • David Krafchick
    Certified Legal Video Specialist Videographer/Co-Inventor...
    Seattle, Washington
  • Victoria Rhoades
    Naturopath
    Woodinville, Washington

Post tags

  • Add tags to make this topic more relevant.