Biznik ranking system

Is ranking something that shows up anywhere besides on the main Members page?

I ask because I do notice that, whether I'm on the top row or on page 2 or beyond of that page, I get to be "featured" other places because of my activity.

For example, my picture often shows up in the BizTalk section as one of the "most talkative."

When I meet new indie biz folks at events (Biznik and other) and they happen to recognize me from my activity on Biznik, it usually seems like they've seen me places other than the main Members page.

The reason I bring this up is that I wonder, Leila, how important visibility on that one section really is. I suspect people run into you on this site in other places, especially in the forums, and get to see what you have to offer.

I do think you raise a good point, L. I guess what I'm curious about is how much this really affects a potential client's ability to find you. ...and I'm genuinely wondering, because I'm well aware that my ranking rises and drops regularly, and yes, I do care. :)

Rachel, you raise good questions. Indeed I have seen that my Biznik stats reflect many visits to my profile no matter where I sit on the Member pages--so long as I am chatting at Biz Talk.

I guess some of my struggle is related to the reality that Biznik, as an entity, cannot really vouch for its members. But, the measure of a member's "value" to the community comes close. And the member ranking is the superficial measurement of such value ...

Now THAT's an interesting inquiry---am I valued as a member if I don't happen to participate in the ways deemed "meaningful" by the organization founders?

Not to get all psychobabbly (yeah, right!), but Dan and Lara's attention is definitely much more divided than it used to be, and I, at least, have noticed the growing pains of our community becoming something larger than the usual 30-50 suspects.

Knowing that things are changing and continuing to change in Biznik, and that the old ways of knowing we're appreciated (individual time and attention, for example) are shifting, here's my question:

What would it take to feel valued?

i personally wouldn't object if the algorithm gave more visibility to those with a higher historical activity than it currently does.

Ah Rachel. Language. Feeling valued or being viewed as valuable.

I do feel valued. I could give many and myriad examples of how members of this community make me feel valued (not the least of which would be kind gestures from Lara).

But as the algorithms kick in and my rank slips, how my value to the community is generally viewed, well, it seems that would slip, too.

I do imagine though, that my own practice of assessing a member isn't isolated. I look at someone's history here--their invitations, their Biz Talk posts and comments, their longevity.

So, it is all complex.

I'd like to add another way to look at this - the Membership Directory not as a reward for active members, but as a resource for those looking for people and services to network with.

I believe that that current activity is even more relevant in a business networking community because small businesses tend to fluctuate between lean and fruitful times.

Not always, but often times, those who are most active in a business networking community are in a growth phase - growing their business and looking for new customers. In these cases, when someone's activity drops off it's generally due to three causes: 1) their business has taken off and they have too much business; 2) their business has taken a turn and they're no longer focused on the thing they were previously marketing; or 3) they're no longer in business.

We believe that the community benefits most from a directory that draws the most attention to those who want the attention, as opposed to those who wanted the attention once long ago. If someone is actively marketing a business on Biznik we give them more visibility than someone who was once actively marketing a business on Biznik but may either not have any time for new clients, or may no longer even be in business.

How would everyone feel is we provided badges on profiles for the length of time you've been a member?

There could be a 1 Year, 2 Year and 3 Year badge, along with a First 100 Members.

When I was a girl scout and had a lot of badges I thought the variety was cool. The more the merrier.

Well all great stuff (stuff being a technical term) but I guess my question has gone from how the rankings were done to do they mean anything anyway? Are people actually modifying their behavior to be ranked higher? I wouldn't say this is bad, just interesting. Do people make decisions based on a members ranking? Again there are always those competitive people who want to be number one in everything they do.

As far as rewarding people for time in grade, I have no opinion on that one. From the founders standpoint I would think members who bring other members to the group should rank at the top. Increased membership rewards everyone because it expands the resources available to all members. I vote for those who bring in the most members to be at the top, but only if they are over six feet tall and over 60 years old. Just kidding - I thought a little (very little) humor was called for. I know ranking is serious business.

I just googled "Everett, WA, Chiropractic." My office site came up third, my Biznik profile came up 8th - but plainly on the front first page. The first listing was Google Maps with 10 D.C.s listed so I guess I should look into that. I don't know for sure but I suspect that Biznik participation contributed to the two sites showing up where they do.

And I have way more than 15 keywords...

This was my primary reason for joining Biznik. But I realize this is a little off topic (and I'm not being sarcastic:-)

This whole issue of the Biznik ranking system has got me thinking. What do people think should be ranked higher or lower and why?

I think hosting an event should be more important than attending but not if you are doing the same event each week. And only if there are more than 50 members within 20 miles of you. Then online activity should be more important.

I also concur with Leila about her view that historical participation is important.

Lara and I have been talking about the ranking system for a few days now. We have had a great chat--about ranking, and related things. We've explored the nuances of: "showing up" and "participating"; of "active" and "valuable"; of present and historical.

In other words, we've talked a lot about what makes a Biznik member a true community member, and our varied perspectives on this.

For now, I'd like to convey that while Lara and I have had heart-felt disagreements about the ranking system--what it measures and how--our conversations have been honorable and even enjoyable. And through them, our different perspectives have tempered a bit.

If nothing else comes of all this, once again I've seen that the "powers" behind Biznik are intelligent, sane, reasonable, thoughtful, and caring (I didn't doubt that, but want to say it here to acknowledge it).

I guess I'd like to encourage those of you who are following along to (kindly) speak up here if you feel like it because people are listening, but have patience if you don't get an immediate reply and/or nothing about the ranking system changes in the near future.

Love&Light, --Leila

Thanks, Leila. I appreciate it. To echo what you said - yes, please share your thoughts and opinions if you have them. Dan and I are always listening. While Biznik is a business, our interest is more in fostering the growing community, as opposed to simply offering you all a service.

This is an interesting post and I have been following the discussions here. I have hesitated to become involved because I sense the whole conversation is about "page rankings," which to me don't mean that much. (To preface this, I am a supporting member.)

I know I am in the minority here, but I value the relationships and activity more than what page someone is on. Joe's original question (correct me if I'm wrong, Joe) was: "Are you finding that some folks with less Biznik activity have higher rankings than others with what appears to be more?"

Some people have said that when choosing someone to do business with, they look at which Bizniks are ranked higher. I would like to think that an ACTIVE Biznik member (or any member, for that matter) would not just look at page rankings, by whatever criteria that is determined (which, frankly, I don't care), but at those they have really gotten to know: people who have given advice freely, have offered solutions to problems, read and commented on people's articles, etc. Basically, people they trust and feel good about. This is not to say that I don't appreciate coming up number 7 on the first page of Google in "marketing for solopreneurs." I do. (Thanks, Dan and Lara!)

I guess what I am trying to say is that I value the relationships and the people who feel as I do, that giving is a good thing. I don't care where I am ranked. And I don't care where THEY are ranked.

Not sure that makes sense, but it's the way I feel.

Your business cred and your Biznik page ranking are apples and oranges. Trying to equate the two, or even comparing the two, is a waste of time, as they aren't the same thing and don't relate to the same issues.

Your business cred is a measure of how well you provide your products and/or services and all the hard and soft factors that play into that determination.

Your Biznik page ranking is related to how well you support community, in the Biznik context, by the overt and covert factors Dan and Lara have established to measure your participation.

My level of participation changes constantly and is affected by the demands of my personal and business life. Biznik, as much as I value it, has to take the back seat to these.

I, for one, am totally willing to let this thing evolve, with Dan and Lara tweaking the genetic code and with members sounding off as we feel the need.

An idea to throw into the mix... It seems there must be a "Master" membership roster somewhere in the Biznik digital universe that tracks all the overt and covert facts about each of us: tenure, participation level by $$ invested (I know it's a fee for services, not an investment, but...), events hosted, events attended, threads started, threads commented on, etc., etc.

Is there a way to allow us (paying members only?) to sort the Master roster by whatever factor interests us at any particular time?

I think there is a computer algorithm to calculate the ranking with all of the parmeters and their weights. Can we really judge the ranking by perceptions? I truely doubt about it.

I would suggest a survey on the ranking parameters and weights once for while so we get a reading from the community.

Personally, I really don’t pay so much attention to my rank. I pay more attention to how many people checking out my profile and my website. I am not sure ranking and traffic to my profile/website are directly related and I do know hosting event does bring traffic to my profile.

Besides, I would rather do the things I love to do instead of doing the things important for a higher rank. Do you have a purpose to be in biznik? What would that be? I will start another talk with the inquiry.

I too have been debating if I should become a paying member. As I will be buying my first daily latte in a few minutes I have concluded that $10 a month is a mere pittance for any added exposure. I am enjoying your events and articles and will continue to stay as active as I can.

Thanks Susan Gold ASP

I'd rather be doing just about anything other than checking my rank. ;-) Life is short.

The overarching Members listing serves as a resource bank for other members and Biznik visitors. I visit here about once or twice a week, to find out who amongst the Bizniks might be the person I or a friend need for one thing or another--tree pruning, house cleaning, blog questions ...

I like knowing what goes into the ranking, i.e., what does page position reflect? What does it "say" about the person I am considering giving my money too? Are they reliable? Are they fun? Are they sane?

Can the ranking system answer such questions? I dunno. I think to some extent it can.

Thanks for that perspective, Leila. It makes sense.

I mostly bop from one contact to another, reading an article and clicking on the profile of one of the commenters, then clicking on folks in their network, and in general being a kind of social butterfly.

Which is a giggle, given that I tend to be anything but a social butterfly in person.

Molly

How interesting to find this post ~ so many months after it's origination. And, my finding a March-April chain in July is a perfect example of why I resonate so strongly with Leila's comments. I've been a member since there were less than 100 members...and yet recently my activity has thinned as I've focused on other parts of my business and used Biznik a bit less. In the past years I have attended and hosted events, talked up Biznik for years, had a Biznik bumper sticker on my car and logo link on my website within days from each becoming available and paid hundreds of $$ in membership, classes and Biznik logo stuff.

Biznik has been an amazing asset to Assisted Transitions’ visibility and growth. This has been through both website ranking and the immense value of classes back in the early days (remember when Joe, Dominic, Dan and those guys actually held workshops???).

Dropping to the unseen 4th and 5th pages is a bit of a blow, when I look at the "newbies" who are very active....at this moment. The highly active folks such as Elizabeth Lee and Joe Hage feel rightfully top of the heap due to their tenure and involvement over time. However, someone who joined a month ago, attend every event over one week, and has posted nothing, invited no one and yet they rank on (much more highly viewed) first page or two. Feels off to me. I can't phrase it more poetically than that...sorry.

Maybe one additional factor for the algorithm is tenure. I don't know the ways these variables and algorithms are created ~that's where I hire fellow Bizniks to know that stuff ~ I just know that out of all the posts in this chain, Leila's comment that "I believe that (in any community) someone's historic activity can be crucial to the community's present-time vitality and prosperity" rights VERY true and right.

Dan and Lara (and team) ~ THANK YOU for all you have created with Biznik. And thank you for the great respect and ethics I see in your transparent leadership from the beginning. I have huge respect for your willingness to come under fire and stay respectful and generous.

Now, PLEASE REALLY CONSIDER an addition to the algorithm that takes into account tenure of our involvement in this amazing community.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this subject, Annie. As we've realized that visibility is so important to the value that members get out of Biznik, we've decided that the current way of displaying members on one page simply doesn't work. We're working on a solution that I think you'll like. When it's at a point where we can show it, we'll give Supporting Members first crack at seeing the solution, and playing with it, so that you can tell us whether it works for you, before we launch it.

As always ~ you guys are improving the tool for all of us, considering our gripes and concerns (and hopefully you feel the commendations, as well!) and ahead of the game. Thanks Dan.

As I see your reply to my comment, I realize what a goof of a user I can be . . . and I completely missed this second entire page of the conversation. Love this active and outspoken community!

I look forward to seeing what you come up with next!