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<span class="supporting_member_name">Justin Baker</span>
Justin Baker
Seattle florist offering organic flowers for delivery. We love green weddings!
Seattle, Washington
Posted by Justin Baker, Seattle, Washington | Feb 04, 2008

Subscribe to Community-wide general discussion can the internet create legal warfare..

between flower shops over branding? hypothetically, what if there are two flower shops on opposite coasts..each serving there respective populations..what if they have similiar names but one spells their version slightly differently. ex. smith flowers vs smythe flowers.. imagine they both have web sites provided by Teleflora or FTD. this means they can derive commissions off orders sent anywhere..

Seeking to snag some 20% commissions, Smythe decides to target Smith's web traffic directly by using changing his sites content to suggest that he serve the latters local area. Is there grounds for Smith to sue Smythe? if so, who would win..is there case law on this?

5 Bizniks have posted replies

  • Barry Hurd
    Posted by Barry Hurd, Seattle, Washington | Feb 04, 2008

    Purchasing competitive leads, PPC, and doing search terms that have branding conflict falls into typical trademark law. Plenty of case work on various issues surround this, but it is very in-depth.

    The 20% commission model is relatively moot on a national scale, as most chain based florists derive funds from general leads.

    Ultimately, most larger chains or franchise operations like FTD and Teleflora probably have restrictive terms of use in the fine print of the contract between two parties. They typically lock out geographic and metro locations for non-compete, or specifically state that it is permissible and there is no non-compete in place between franchise operations.

    There are plenty of grounds to sue other businesses based on trademark infringement in an industry.

  • Justin Baker
    Posted by Justin Baker, Seattle, Washington | Feb 04, 2008

    if one sues the other one..what decides the issue? what if the defendant has a distinctive logo and branding? would this matter, or would it come down to which one went into business first?

    the fact of the matter is Barry, this is commonly done already. if you google "seattle florist" invariably the search results often yield interesting results. it's common to see there are florists from other markets jumping into our traffic. sometimes they aren't even florists at all..rather just a call center and a web site. Justflowers.com is just one of a slew of them.

    The worst offender occording to local florists here in Seattle i hear is Cascade Floral supposedly out of Issaquah. i have a friend with a shop called Edmonds Flower Shop..These people actually put an ad in her local phone book claiming to be Edmonds Florist. While it may be legal, i can see why she thinks it dirty.

    The problem i am going to have to confront as my web presence grows is how to not loose traffic to florists with names spelled more conventionally..also the question is do i want to dip into there traffic? Is there a way to do this without being unethical? Isn't theoretically possible for me to run into a dilemma even as i try to SEO optimize to limit how much accidental traffic i send to my fellow florists in other places?

    I mean i may have to put in something about how we are not Busy Bee..We are BiZi Bee.. yet that could land me in some of their searches. how best do i protect myself while protecting myself?

  • Justin Baker
    Posted by Justin Baker, Seattle, Washington | Feb 04, 2008

    Btw, if FTD, Teleflora, and 800FLOWERS has any such restrictions...they don't even seem to enforce it on themselves. they do the best they can to buy our traffic and sell it back to us at a deep discount.

    That's why if any of you decide to send flowers this Valentine's Day..i highly recommend you do it through a local florist. Most of us have websites now, and with google local it's easier than ever. Course, if you only want to do your flower biz at BiZi Bee Floral & Gifts..we'll understand! many of us have arrangements between us that allow us to send flowers between us without charging the consumer the extra fee the wire service makes us tack on to use their network. we have the internet now! no need for any extra fees!

    If you don't mind paying a commission to a local florist to send flowers out of town for you (it doesn't have to cost any more than normal if you insist on not involving a wire service) we'd appreciate it if you steer clear of FTD.com, Teleflora.com, 800FLOWERS..why should they get any commission? Their cheasy bouquets (which most florists still grudgingly do) are a drag on our industry..and if you noticed their business practices are killing the local florist..if you drive down Aurora Ave here in Seattle..you'll notice (according to one local longtime resident) that the little mom and pop flower shops have folded.

    okay..i'll get off my soapbox and return to the question of this thread..how does a small biz like me grow their traffic...not lose sales opportunities to well established companies/web urls with more conventional names.. and if this brings me traffic can i prevent BiZi Bee from being sued?

    Do any of you think this is too public of a forum to discuss such a thing? my attitude is i have nothing to hide. i want to achieve maximum success for my biz while operating fairly and ethically...never mind legally.

  • Danny Bronski
    Posted by Danny Bronski, Seattle, Washington | Feb 04, 2008

    As a trademark attorney, I can only whet your appetite by saying...if you are Bizi Bee, you are Busy Bee. The most common test a court would use is likelihood of confusion, which is a term of art only as meaningful as the nuances of case law, best understood by an attorney who actually pays attention to this...

  • Barry Hurd
    Posted by Barry Hurd, Seattle, Washington | Feb 04, 2008

    Doing competitive branding campaigns through search is a slightly different box of hornets than usual, for instance Seattle Florist on Google as a PPC keyword isn't a word at all. It is actually a search property of Google.

    What does that mean? It means that as long as I abide by Google's terms of service- that I can buy the keyword of "Seattle Florist" for an adult entertainment store.

    There are many aspects of this type of keyword warfare- I think this instance is most closely related to the idea of "conquesting" on google. (Google "conquesting" and it will pull up a few articles I've written).

    This is actually a wide open search realm, which is a reason there are so many directories online. In the end of the day, even Biznik pulls up for Bizi bee, so does Citysearch.

    Many other directories have your information simply so they can sell advertising around your name, such as Linked-in and Biznik. The organic traffic created by having your name on someone else's site is a fundamental issue which is a tenfold problem when evaluated against social media sites.

This forum is unmoderated, but please keep discussion courteous and not too far off topic.

Members posting in this topic

  • Barry Hurd
    Social Media Promotion and Training
    Seattle, Washington
  • Justin Baker
    Seattle florist offering organic flowers...
    Seattle, Washington
  • Danny Bronski
    Trademark/Entertainment + Business Attorney
    Seattle, Washington

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