Free Biznik Events vs. Small Fee-based Events - what do you prefer?

I think having fee-based events is much better. Personally, I feel more compelled to go the ones I've paid for and I believe the person hosting it is going to have put more work into organizing it.

Clearly, none of us are trying to make a living off BizNik events but I think the quality of people who show up and the level of interest they have is significantly higher when they've laid some money on the line. I say this as a person who has hosted several events and attended many.

I know that when I host an event, I really like to give handouts and snacks to make people feel comfortable and to give them something tangible to help them follow my presentation. For this reason, I like to charge at least $5 to cover this. I am happy to pay for events because I have a high level of respect for BizNik members and what they do.

Also, I've absolutely never been to a BizNik event that I paid for where I didn't feel I got far more out of it than the fee. Leif Hansen's podcasting event and Danielle Hermeler's Press Release event are both excellent examples of that.

To comment on Lara's question, I get really excited and sign up for 5 free events at a time that are over the next two months and they I simple forget or book clients during those times and can't come. If I go through the process of paying for something with my credit card, it goes on the calendar and it takes a lot for me to cancel.

Some of my ideas:

I would be led to believe that there is an issue around the cultural group that has formed around Biznik.

I often tell people what my client or project rates have been to establish that I not only know what I am worth, but that there is a market of others who know what I am worth.

I don't do this to say "ha, I can charge money" but to educate people that when I invite them to coffee to talk about business or am actually "digging into the issues" with them, that there is a huge value there.

When I attend Biznik events, I am returning something to the community and being involved by sharing expertise. I don't really view Biznik as a source of dollar generation, but one of relationships.

So to make fun of that common credit card commercial:

60 minutes of my time = $$$ 60 relationships from Biznik = priceless

To increase reservations, the value statement needs to be there.

The $10 value statement is a hard one to sell to a group of people charging $100+ hourly. The basic marketing 101 psychology unfortunately kicks in:

$10 = 10% of my hourly rate. Spending 1 hour conversing for $10 = not in line with my personal value level.

To move that price point up with reservation, I think there has to be a value statement that supports the personal value level. While there can be great value in the $10 ticket, proving it's value is actually harder that proving a $100 value.

I'm not entirely sure I follow, Barry. Are you saying it's not worth charging as a host, or not worth going to events that charge?

I charge just a little (only $10...$5 for me, $5 for Biznik) because for my chat groups and social lunches, I don't do any preparation besides arranging the event and writing a description. When I did those blogging classes with Dominic, we charged more like $25. And don't forget, that's per head.

I charge for 2 reasons: 1) to make sure people take the event seriously (like what Sterling and Lara both referred to...if they pay, they don't no-show), and 2) to offer even some token of support to Biznik...and me.

Sure, making $5 per head for 5 to 10 people doesn't come close to my hourly rate, but it does demonstrate to me that people appreciate my time. And obviously, part of the reason I host events is to network and promote myself to potential clients. I also LIKE it. So the value I get out of it is only partially monetary. And actually, if it didn't support Biznik to charge for my events, I'd be less likely to keep doing it.

I am new supporting member of Biznik as of a few weeks ago and have yet to attend any events. That will change over the next few weeks as I start to attend some general networking events that happen to be "Free" events.

As events post to the list I read the offerings and if the topic suits my needs I consider an RSVP. The prices are nominal for what is being offered and can be used as a business expense that certainly can be written off if necessary.

If a Biznik member is offering to host an event than they feel they have something to offer our community at large. That is why we have all joined Biznik, to network, to help eachother and to help ourselves. There is nothing wrong with helping ourselves and if a member wants to help their business by getting in front of a group of people I say more power to you!!!

I see both sides of the coin. I've hosted three events so far and have two more on the calendar in the coming weeks. I've charged for only one event, so far and it was to cover my copy costs, and a fraction of my prep time. When I attach a fee to an event it's because I feel it's an event in which I am sharing some knowledge or expertise and as such, there should be a fee for that. For other events, I feel I can support Biznik and it's members by offering my time to organize and host the event.

Additionally, I remember that in the "hosting guidelines" Dan and Lara indicated that events such as book clubs and happy hours should not have a fee attached. That may still be their philosophy (Lara, perhaps you could comment here) and the events that are skill or education based should not be free. I think that's fair...if you are sharing your knowledge or expertise and a lot of planning is going into the event, it's more than fair to ask for a small contribution from everyone to cover this. As a side note, I had the most no-shows (2 or 3) at my only paid event and in each event people showed up that did not register...so I had more people than expected in some cases!

On the flip side, Biznik has been an invaluable resource to me and I feel that as an active member hosting events, I'm "giving back." I've attended free events and paid events and have found value in all of them. I don't have a sense of higher perceived value in events I've had to pay for. I respect the people whose workshops I attend and know I can learn from them, otherwise I wouldn't have signed up for the event. We’re all so pulled in different directions with our businesses, that I would hope we’re all only signing up for events we are really committed to attending and getting the most from. Also, there are months in which attending all the Biznik events I'd like to attend would not be possible if there is a fee attached to each one. Some events include a lunch or cocktails, so that gets added into the event cost in my mind. All that adds up and you can only order water at events, so many times! Oh, and don't forget about parking for some of those weekday events or locations where street parking in almost non-existent. In my mind, that's all added into my event cost and sometimes, the budget just doesn't allow for that if I wanted to attend several Biznik events that month. I KNOW I'm not the only Biznik member to be in that boat some weeks, but I may be the only one brave enough to admit it. ;)

Biznik is based on a Lara and Dan's mission to create a community and build relationships that support each others' entrepreneurial endeavors. Yes, I know Dan and Lara are running this as a for-profit business and they need to do what they need to do to accomplish that. But as a community in which I have already made some amazing friends and learned so much from others and have received some stellar support and hopefully have been able to give support back, I will be very disheartened if suddenly a fee is attached to nearly every event and as such will need to limit the number of events I can attend during those "lean weeks".

Hmmm......this is interesting. Some folks say that charging is an expression of value, and statistics seem to show it increases attendance.

If you're giving a seminar and providing information and handouts, sure I can see people charging, like you'd charge for a class or consulting.

I also think there is a tremendous positive value in giving things away. It's a statement that says to me, "hey, right now, I'm just here to contribute." I'm sure we all think it's only healthy to be contributing in some areas in our lives, whether that be in biznik, or at a shelter or something. I like that it's a choice here.

My crystal ball tells me the greatest perceived value folks have here is the networking with similar minds. I've found a coach, a masseuse, someone to work with, and several social contacts through biznik. People seem to think I add something to their lives too.(you'd have to do a poll to get a better idea of what others think/feel)

P.S.:Rachel, I will NOT be drawn into the discussion of "What is Indie?", (didn't see if you were part of THAT) since my brain was ruined by a degree in philosophy some years ago, and I can see the neverending labyrinth of that question (smile). An infinite feedback loop........

I just want to clarify "Shoes" if you think that I only perceive charging as an expression of value. I do a lot of volunteer work in my community of West Seattle, probably 1000 last year alone and that is not an exaggeration. I firmly believe that if each on of us does not give back as much as we take then this little place of ours is in deep kaka.

That being said, I do believe that our business community would suggest that in fact charging is in fact an expression of value. I believe there has been a thread here on Biznik that suggested that when going up against competitors it is perceived that the more we charge for our services the more reputable. I hate the money game and would love to not play it at all but that's not going to pay for college for my kids.

Interesting, indeed.

I look to Biznik for building relationships and fostering community. And for that I appreciate the free events. I tend to sign up for whatever event or offer fits into my interests or schedule. With a contract in Renton (yikes!) and more freelance work in the footing, I simply don't know my availability sometimes, so I'm actually inclined to go to the more "social" events which allow some flexibility. That way, I still get to meet the same great people.

If you want to charge a nominal fee, I'm all for it. Of course everyone's time is valuable and billable. But I may not sign up simply due to scheduling issues and not wanting to be locked in. It's not that I'm not as interested, I'm just being realistic about my recent commute and timing.

And even if those fee-based events offer something truly fascinating or relevant to my world, I don't know that I value them any more, frankly. I've attended some great events that were immensely valuable for free.

I think some people may be looking to Biznik to add to their client/customer lists (and they may charge), and others may be looking to Biznik to add to their communities and networks. We can all live happily together. I hope that I continue to see FREE and FEE-BASED events. I'd leave it up to the masses to decide what works for them.
And time permitting, I hope to be able to contribute more as well.

I think if preparation of any kind is needed for the event then charge accordingly...you need to cover your materials, time etc.

If a valuable service is being offered (like Domincks for instance) then by all means charge...

If you just want to meet for coffee and chat that would not be enough to charge a fee for....as I consider that more social...than business

And I agree...its all about perceived value and think more along the lines as what Rachel stated... with a fee charged, even a small one, it is more like a token gesture saying, yes I am committed to coming to your event as I see it has value for me and I am supporting you (and biznik) all at the same time

I follow Barrys thinking and see where he's coming from but dont agree with it.. what you can charge per hour in your business/service should not relate to what you charge or pay for an event.

I look at events as a way of giving to biznik members..... You charge a small token fee to members to attend your event We support you and your event by paying that token fee and attending I dont look at biznik/events as a way to make my xxx amount of dollars per hour like I would during my normal business hours

and if I havent rambled on enough........

"I charge for 2 reasons: 1) to make sure people take the event seriously (like what Sterling and Lara both referred to...if they pay, they don't no-show), and 2) to offer even some token of support to Biznik...and me."

Rachel- I think the 1) is faulty because of the numbers involved. Sure... people who pay are significantly more likely to show. But at $10, its an sign-up killer. I could either host a $10 show and have 3-10 attend with a 95% attendance rate... or I could do a free show and get 30-40 to show with a 60% attendance rate.

Even though I may not generate $30 to $100 by having a $10 ticket item, the free event has more attendance and potential for relationship building (and the relationships in Biznik are a higher perceived value)

On B) rather than generate token support on 3-10 attendees... try hosting an event and actually requesting them to donate it. I've done dozens of charity events over the years.... and getting a community to donate/participate is entirely about the "optimistic and optional", not the "forced and fearful"

Unfortunately, detailing further is completely broken up into various methods of generating income for Biznik and generating income for its membership. Many of those points and ideas have partially conflicting issues.

I was just discussing this with someone after my "quarter mile high networking club" event. Even with the greatest venue around, both times I've had ~15-20% no show rate. Having people pay would likely reduce that, but at the same time value becomes a question. I could charge and cover parking or not pay out of pocket for wine (which I'm happy to do anyway). But if I charge $10 users pay $15 or $22 which maybe isn't the best value for parking and a glass of wine.

For the member holding the event there's value to them even when paying some out of pocket. Higher rankings in the member list and profile views from those checking out events has value to the event host.

I'm all for supporting Biznik and I obviously haven't done the numbers. What about just charging $5 for all "free" events for non-supporting members? As a supporting member I like free mixers, etc. But I see the benefit of ensuring Biznik is supported and having people having something invested in the group and the event.

personally, i think having more fee based events makes sense even for mixers. i like the idea of packaging the event with food/drink/or other perk because it adds to the perceived value while ensuring the venue gets something out of it as well.(basically giving incentive to the owner of said venue to have us back)..that said, i think some consideration could be extended to newbies..perhaps we give them a deep discount or make it free to them during a trial period.

personally what keeps me away from events is not cost..rather it's usually the demands of my business or health reasons.. i think more people would attend events, fee based ones included, if they are properly promoted.

In my humble opinion.... I think there is room for both types of events.

A professional business consultant, earns fees in return for services provided to his/her clients. You find clients by referral, word of mouth, and exposure to your target clientele. One of the things that attracts me to biznik is the opportunity of visibility and introductions so that future clients and referrals can be based on interactions and experiences.

I want to maximize the number of experiences others have had with the "real me" as oppossed to "advertising" and "marketing hype". I never do real business without a "Free" consultation first. Most of your clients probably feel the same way and Free events facilitate this.

I also enjoy this platform to discover and evaluate bizniks before I actually refer them to my client base and expanded network connections. I am amazed at the number of people that sign up and proclaim what they need with no regard for proving their value first through making a connection. They just don't "get it".

I also like to observe the bizniks that RSVP events and then don't show up without a cancellation. This reveals a definitive character trait that helps me determine who I give my referrals to.

The most powerful feature of biznik is facilitating real connections using the advantages of the internet. Not just accumulating names for your contact database. Dan and Lara Eve created a great mix of the wired world with the touch of the real world. And both Free and Paid events facilitate this.

Are you giving a value related workshop/service or do you want exposure and connections? What do you have to offer? Get out there and give it away through FREE events. Once your value is apparent, people will be willing to pay you for it. Your attendance at paid events will give you a clue as to when that is appropriate.

Wow, definitely thought-provoking comments here. I tend to go for events that are for relationship&community building. The fee doesn't matter as long as I have the interest and time for an event. However I like the flexibility of canceling my RSVP if something comes up or if I've had a tough day or something like that. However maybe having a standard small fee ($5) attached to every event (except for happy-hour networking events) might be a good idea since it won't hurt the attendees but cumulatively might make a difference for Dan&Lara. This might be a way for us to return the favor for the availability of such a wonderful community. I can imagine it takes a lot of work (and possibly money) to maintain and grow it. This is my two cents but I'll leave the numbers game to those who seem innately skilled at it. :)

I must add this..

Kevin... I thank you for social event last night. I would not have gone if there had been a fee. As a result of meeting you, I decided that I want to know more about your biz and how I can help you. This would not have happened if you had not hosted your Free event. (although I know it cost YOU to do it)

Justin.... I thank you for contributing to the BizTalk forums. I enjoy your enthusiasm and, consequently purchased from your biz today based solely on an on-line connection. I hope to meet you someday at an event and maybe you will become "my florist guy" for future referrals. Free events help make this happen.

Rachel... Thank you for giving me a heads-up on this topic. And I must say that I would be willing to pay for a relevant topic workshop that you host because I had the opportunity to meet you at a Free event. If I had not met you first though, I would not feel the same compulsion.

I'm so glad people are participating in this conversation. This issue has felt big to me as a sometimes Biznik event host, and I love hearing all the feedback.

My personal take is that I like there being free events and pay events, and I agree with Dan & Lara's suggestion (as mentioned by Nancy) that happy hours and book clubs be free and other events be charged. I ALSO agree that it's good to offer an event for free if it's a first time, as Howard indicates. People need to see that there's something of value before they decide to put their wallet into it.

I'm intrigued about the suggestion posed above by Kevin that Biznik charge non-supporting members a $5 fee to attend each free event (ie events that would normally be free to all other members, like happy hours).

The main thing that I'm doing on this topic is continuing to charge a small amount for my "chat" and "social" events (which are not the same as happy hours, as they are small groups that discuss topics on a theme related to what I do...either biz blogging or alleviating stuckness in biz life). I will continue to do this to support Biznik, and to support the idea that people are getting access to my time as an expert in the field. But mostly to support Biznik. :)

Thanks for that comment, Howard.

To toss in a different view, I had someone attend my last Stuckness Social who predominantly came because it was an inexpensive way to get to talk to me as a professional (and different than just meeting me at a happy hour).

I've heard similar things from others who came to my old Biz Blogger Chat Group events--it was a cheaper way to get time with the "expert."

I love meeting people at free networking events...AND obviously there's a difference between me as a person who networks and me as a person "on duty" as I am at the events I host. People feel free to ask all the questions about their bizes that they wouldn't if I were "off the clock," so to speak. Make sense?

Howard does make a compelling point.:)

Rachel also makes a compelling point about ".... a cheaper way to get time with the expert."

In that spirit, she has a larger client base than I do, hence my FREE event: Just Meet and Eat on Tuesday is limited to just 10 attendees. Come join me while they still last :)

I thought there already were different price structures for the events based on your membership. Perhaps this doesn't include free events, though (i.e. they're free for everyone). I remember that when Biznik 2.0 was launched it appeared as if when I was logged in and the site recognized me as a Supporting Member, I saw "Supporting Member prices" But if I logged out and visited the site I saw the same events with a higher event fee (presumably because I wasn't logged in and identified as a Supporting Member.) I tried this now and didn't see a price difference for the 3 current events that have a fee. Remember, our current Supporting Member rates will be increasing from $10 to $24 a month up as of October 1, if we want to stay onboard as Supporting Members. We were notified that we were "grandfathered in" with our original monthly rate when the new site went up but that would end on October 1st. I thought that was the point of the price increase...perks for Supporting Members, such as lower event rates. I like the idea posted above...charge non-members $5 for free events, in order to enourage people to sign up as Active or Supporting Members and lower fees for Supporting or Active Members.

Lara, perhaps you could clarify this. Are there three rates? I know I'm not imagining that fact that when Biznik 2.0 was in the temporary site phase, I saw different rates depending on whether I was logged in or not.

love too howie..just when i was about to click an rsvp i looked at the time it's going on and the location..ouch..not sure if tukwila is a place i can be that time a day..i'll just have to jump in at the last sec if i'm gonna do it..maybe we'll get lucky and i'll have a respectable delivery down there..

Thanks for all the clarification, Lara...much appreciated! ;)

Nancy

(http://www.hoptosignaroo.com)

Yeah thanks Lara, that spelled it out well. And... it seems well thought and reasonable, as usual.

DD