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<span class="basic_member_name">Nancy Hanauer</span>
Nancy Hanauer
American Sign Language Classes and Products for Hearing Families
Seattle, Washington
Posted by Nancy Hanauer, Seattle, Washington | Jan 14, 2008

Subscribe to Community-wide general discussion Late Fees

Hi all, I need some input. The majority of my work requires clients to pre-pay for my services. When I work with parents in their home I ask them to send a check within 7 days of confirming their class with me. I'm not taking credit cards yet and this has worked just fine. As an aside, when I gave clients 10 days to pay, I often had to call them and remind them as they couldn't seem to get the check in on time, but now that I tell them they have just 7 days to pay, this rarely happens. Funny, huh? With a shorter time span, they figure they'd better mail the check immediately.

Anyway...I am working more and more with state agencies which have accounting departments and hoops to jump through and pay after services have been provided. This is fine and I typically give them 30 days to get payment to me...the industry standard. However, I've had several instances recently in which it took nearly two months to get paid (school districts are the biggest offenders), so I now want to add a late fee clause to my contractual agreements with them. So my question is, what's the "industry standard" or what do you charge for late fees when payment is not received within 30 days. I'm looking for the percentage that most businesses considered equitable or "the standard". Thanks!

Nancy

(http://www.hoptosignaroo.com)

13 Bizniks have posted replies

  • David Krafchick
    Posted by David Krafchick, Seattle, Washington | Jan 14, 2008

    Late Fees are tricky. I had to deal with Indiana University Medical Center which initially ordered one unit. Then a couple months went by. When I gave them a friendly reminder (they were offering a formal study of our product, so I decided not to rock the boat) they upped the order to 3 units. Then the W-9 form came and went; then I cound out more and more hoops and forms to become a formal vendor with IU. So the who thing took 3 and a half months and created a large gap in our cash flow. I covered it, but that meant falling behind and adding debt.

    So I promised no more of this. If we work with any kind of institution, I ask about anything to do with timeline and payments and I hold them to it. So far late fees have no become necessary.

    I recommend you do the same for your business. If they have any trouble paying on time, make sure they understand they must call and talk to you immediately or a late fee will be assessed. Say it up front and there are no issues or arguments later.

  • Amy Woidtke (woid-key)
    Posted by Amy Woidtke (woid-key), Greater Seattle, Washington | Jan 14, 2008

    piggybacking on Nancy's inquiry...

    i was once told that one had to include the late fee clause in an agreement prior to services rendered or one cannot charge a late fee.

    is this true?

  • Nancy Hanauer
    Posted by Nancy Hanauer, Seattle, Washington | Jan 14, 2008

    Yes, Amy, I think that's pretty much a given. If you are working with a client and give them a contract, you can't tack the late fee on after the fact. It needs to be stated up front...which is what I am looking to add to my contracts now.

  • Karen Johanson
    Posted by Karen Johanson, Seattle, Washington | Jan 15, 2008

    My contract includes a 2% per month finance charge on any balances unpaid after 30 days. I got the wording from an editorial photography industry template, so I think that's somewhat standard for my industry.
    There are also state laws governing the maximum but I don't recall what the maximum is in Washington state.
    But most people I know, myself included, have had more problems with big accounting departments than with smaller companies that have more AP flexibility and fewer hoops ;-) Unfortunately, getting some clients to pay late fees can be more costly in terms of time expenditure than the fee.
    But it never hurts to have legal standing.
    I'll be curious to see if someone out there has found the solution to a) always getting clients to pay on time or b) always getting clients to pay late fees when they don't.

  • Dennis Dilday
    Posted by Dennis Dilday, Everett, Washington | Jan 15, 2008

    It may not be a perfect match but here's how we do it: Our statements show the age of the account balance. We decided not to charge Finance Charge for several reasons, mostly to do with collection and with the issue of people taking offense, but also to do with keeping track. Anyway, rather than a Finance Charge we stamp the statement with "Past Due" at the 30 days past due mark. At 60 days past due we stamp the statement with a collection notice (it will go to collection if we don't get paid in 10 days). Then if we aren't paid we turn the account over and forget it - it's no longer my problem.

    As for the contractual agreement part, our patients sign that it is they that are responsible for their accounts regardless of insurance.; and I usually have to remind them to initial that particular statement (for some reason they all overlook it:-)

    In my other business dealing with agencies, our contract says that if we don't get paid within, I think it's 45 or 60 days, we get interest at 12%. That been a pretty good incentive for them to pay on time, but they have paid us interest before.

    DD

  • Chris Haddad
    Posted by Chris Haddad, Seattle, Washington | Jan 16, 2008

    I haven't done net 30 billing in a long time (I do payment prior to service pretty much exclusively, with a few clients who pay half up front and half the day I deliver the product) but when I did I charged a 5 percent finance charge . . .and made sure it was in big bold letters on the agreement.

    I don't think the number matters as much as the fact that you have a number.

  • Jonathan Martin
    Posted by Jonathan Martin, Seattle, Washington | Jan 16, 2008

    In my industry there are no late fees.

    However I have learned that all you have to do is ask. We are all so afraid of scaring away business that we are willing to shoot ourselves in the foot.

    Ask for what you need, you will probably get it.

  • Kevin Selkowitz
    Posted by Kevin Selkowitz, Seattle, Washington | Jan 16, 2008

    I had late fees and still have them in my contract, but rarely try to use them. Turns out people didn't pay faster and didn't pay the late fees 90% of the time.

    Instead I adopted a few pronged approach:

    1) Never provide goods without payment. 2) Put in the contract that you're allowed to collect full amount due PLUS collections fees. This must be in the contract but really protects you. 3) Under no circumstances provide any new goods or services to anyone who has outstanding bills.

  • Michael Halligan
    Posted by Michael Halligan, San Francisco, California | Jan 16, 2008

    Paying bills late is essentially a method for businesses to get free financing on short-term loans without permission. Simply take away the ability for them to be free.

    The two methods we've had the best success with have been communications and finance charges. Proactive billing is the best. Identify the slow customers, gently confront them about it, and just accept that with those customers you will need to spent 10 minutes on the phone with them every time you invoice them, and sometimes also have to give them a call the day a payment is due.

    As for finance charges, we bill net-15. After 15 days, a 5% finance charge applies, and every 30 days another 5% finance charge gets added on. You'd be surprised how many billion dollar companies happily pay these late fees. The larger the company, the worse the payment system.

    If your customer won't pay on-time and won't pay the contractually obligated fees, talk to them about it once. If it happens again, cut them off, and refuse to do business with them again with any terms other than prepaid.

    Nowhere is it written that one vendor must give free financing to the other... Well, except when dealing with local, state, and federal governments.

  • Giannina Silverman
    Posted by Giannina Silverman, Seattle, Washington | Jan 17, 2008

    Hi Nancy,

    My contract states a 1.8% per month late fee, as well as a powerful little clause that clearly states that all delinquent accounts will be turned over to an agent or lawyer for collections. As such, I haven't had payment issues in years.

  • Jennifer Hofmann
    Posted by Jennifer Hofmann, Salem, Oregon | Jan 19, 2008

    I, too, get paid upfront by the majority of my clients.

    After 30 days, I tack on a $25 fee. But a week before I send the invoice, I send an email reminder and mention the impending fee. The day before it's due, I do the same thing.

    I had two clients in the same month that I used this process with. Once submitted payment the same day at the 11th hour, the other emailed me on the due date and then sent payment following week. (shrug) I haven't needed it since.

  • laurel burke
    Posted by laurel burke, bellingham, Washington | Jun 18, 2008

    Until recently, I had no "fees" because most businesses buying mannequins paid up front. Lately I'm getting more POs and, unfortunately, more late pays.

    I know I can't charge them anything for the time already passed, but is there a way to institute an "if you haven't paid within 30 days of (now), you will be charged an additional..."?

    Michael- Does a collections agency include fees contracted for (above the cost of merchandise/service)?

    And, if I make the policy that first-time buyers must pay at least 50% up front, can there be any legal issues for me if I then diverge from that policy and accept a PO, and they flake?

  • DL Byron
    Posted by DL Byron, Seattle, Washington | Jun 18, 2008

    Getting paid is the hardest thing about a small business, in consulting, and I've never been successful at late fees. Instead, I resort to hounding.

This forum is unmoderated, but please keep discussion courteous and not too far off topic.

Members posting in this topic

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  • Amy Woidtke (woid-key)
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  • Nancy Hanauer
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  • Karen Johanson
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  • Dennis Dilday
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  • Chris Haddad
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  • Jonathan Martin
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  • Kevin Selkowitz
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  • Michael Halligan
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  • Giannina Silverman
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  • Jennifer Hofmann
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  • laurel burke
    mannequin designer
    bellingham, Washington
  • DL Byron
    Principal, Blogger, Author
    Seattle, Washington

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