Seattle Community

Posted by Miles Johnson, Seattle, Washington | Feb 09, 2008

Subscribe to Community-wide general discussion SEO And Flash Question

I redid my website last year. I took my web developers advice and had the whole site built in Flash. It is beautiful and gets compliments all the time from people who see it. Now I am realizing that a Flash website doesn't get high rankings in search engines. So I must be missing a lot of business from all the people that don't see it. It doesn't even show up in google for Seattle florists.

I added a blog to help with SEO, but most people that read the blog aren't also going back to my primary web site.

What feedback is out there on how to improve the search engine rankings of an all Flash site? I am not able to rebuild the site at this time but am looking for ideas to improve the ranking of the existing site. When I do rebuild it, I am thinking of having only the photos in flash and not the rest of the site.

Here are the links:

www.fiorifloraldesign.com

www.fiorifloraldesign.blogspot.com

Thanks for your help!

Miles

10 Bizniks have posted replies

  • Nick Karnik
    Posted by Nick Karnik, Bellevue, Washington | Feb 09, 2008

    Search Engines will not index Flash files (.SWF extensions). However, you load the SWF file through an HTML page!

    This will get a bit technical, so I will try to give you an overview of what you can do.

    On the HTML page loading the SWF file, you will need to create a section with HTML content in a DIV tag (with an id, eg: SEO-CONTENT). This HTML content is information you want search engines to index.

    Next, when the page loads, you will execute a Javascipt, which will test if the browser has Javascript enabled and if the correct version of Flash is installed (which is almost always true or your flash page won't show on browsers). Now (here is the magic), you will create a reference to your SWF file, which will be dynamically loaded and it will replace the content in the DIV (identified as SEO-CONTENT).

    In essence, you could have HTML and FLASH content load on your site (depending on the browser settings). But, that requires too much maintenance.

    I talked to Adobe last month and they are considering SEO solutions in the upcoming flash versions.

    Here is an interesting tool that will make your job easy as far as creating the SEO friendly HTML content. Go to http://www.adobe.com/licensing/developer/search/faq/ and download the SDK and use the swf2html tool to extract HTML content from your flash file.

    Hope that helps!

    Nick

  • Barry Hurd
    Posted by Barry Hurd, Seattle, Washington | Feb 10, 2008

    Trying to SEO a flash site is, well, like trying to raise the Titanic from the bottom of the ocean.

    Everytime you stop working on it, it crumbles and falls back into the ocean.

    You can take the longer process above that Nick detailed to SEO some content, but developing a call to action on your blog and creating some other traffic sources is typically a better use of effort. I have never recommended any flash based client attempt to budget for SEO, as it is an uphill battle with numerous hurdles.

    You can also look at getting in as many local directories for seattle florist, seattle weddings, special events, etc, etc. Many local directories are free.

  • Susan Tilley
    Posted by Susan Tilley, Southern Oregon, Oregon | Feb 10, 2008

    When asked, I always recommend against an all Flash site for precisely this reason. Search engines cannot "read" Flash.

    Nick is correct in that you use an html page (which has text search engines can read) to hold and load your Flash site.

    You can try to make that page more effective for your search terms. For instance, you can enhance the "alt" tag on your logo to include your keywords.

    You have some other issues on your site that may cause Google to gag.

    You have html content (text) that is set to display: none. Depending who you ask, this may cause your site to be penalized.

    Further, you have about 8 h1 tags on your page. You are only supposed to have one. This may cause a penalty, again depending who you ask.

    Third, the small amount of text (in the hidden area) that is there are all keywords. This might be construed as keyword stuffing which can result in a (guess what?) penalty.

    So what to do? If you were my client, I would recommend you try removing the hidden text and adding some natural language, correctly structured, visible text to your page. A good designer can incorporate some text into your page (that's all you have is one html page) that will look nice with the design of the Flash.

    You already have a pretty good title tag which is the most important text on the page from search engine point of view.

    Anyway, that is what I would try and see if it helps bring your rank up.

  • Justin Baker
    Posted by Justin Baker, Seattle, Washington | Feb 10, 2008

    miles the last time i checked you were pretty well ranked under "Seattle Florist"..

    i think you are on the right track by having a blog. i posted a blog about our new Sweet & Natural bouquet and the next morning it was on page 1 for organic flowers..

    what i wonder is why it didn't stay there..it only took a few days to drop way back..

  • Dennis Osorio
    Posted by Dennis Osorio, Albuquerque, New Mexico | Feb 10, 2008

    I think Susan's advice is right on. There are many reasons not to have an all flash-based site and SEO concerns are only one of them. Accessibility for those with sight or mobility disabilities are another.

    Many people without medically-certified sight disabilities like to resize the text on their computer screens (I'm thinking about my parents). Flash prohibits this.

    Finally, when I hover over a link, I like to know where I'm being directed to. This allows me to not blindly pick a pdf or word file for download. Or, I'm alerted to the fact that I am about to be whisked away to an external site. This is another thing that the all flash-based site doesn't allow.

    Let me clarify I don't hate Flash or that I think it's inherently "wrong". It's just that it needs to be implemented selectively. What I would've done if I were designing your site and you liked what Flash has to offer, is to have used it for the the photo sideshow portion only. My thinking is that Flash should be used only for "the effects" and not for navigation or content.

    I also want to mention that the arrangements on your site look amazing.

  • Miles Johnson
    Posted by Miles Johnson, Seattle, Washington | Feb 11, 2008

    Thanks all for your insight. I will pass this on to my web developer to see what can be done without redoing the site completely. I welcome further input if anyone else has thoughts.

    Dennis, Thank you for your complement and insight!

    Justin, You've got a good blog. Keep it up.

    Susan, Thank you for your specific recommendations. They are very helpful.

    Dennis, I definitely think a combination of Flash and HTML is the way to go next time I redo my site. Thank you for your thoughts.

    Barry, From what I read on this site, you're "The Man" when it comes to SEO. I appreciate your taking the time to weigh in on this. I have tried to foster as many links to my site as I can and will work on developing more.

    All the best, Miles

  • Scott Brinkerhoff
    Posted by Scott Brinkerhoff, Marysville, Washington | Feb 12, 2008

    Not all is lost for those with all Flash sites. Some things not mentioned here:

    Search engines can pull dynamic content from flash sites. As long as the content is dynamic and is loaded from an external file such as an XML document or a database, it is readable. Only when the text is converted to a movie clip or object does it get hidden from search engines. The down side to this is that the text is all read as being on one page and not multiple.

    You can also trigger html code to load "behind" your flash file when a new movie is loaded (ie clicking a link) so the search engines will see the html text and your viewers will see the flash site. Benefit one, this is not considered spamming the search engines. Benefit two, if your visitor does not have Flash installed (yes there are some), then they still see content and text based links.

    There is also a bit of code you can insert into your flash links that will "register a move to a new scene or movie clip" as a move to a new page and it will track as such in Google analytics. This way you can still actively track users in an all Flash web site.

    And all of Dennis' concerns about usability are mute if you have the right developer working on your site; because all of that functionality can be coded in if it isn't already programmed into preset extensions for Flash.

    So while I agree that an all Flash site is not the best case scenario for those not already having a huge presence or brand in your specific industry, there are still ways to increase SEO and allow for proper tracking and analytics of your visitors movements through your site.

  • Daniel Seirawan
    Posted by Daniel Seirawan, Seattle, Washington | Mar 18, 2008

    I recommend Joomla to my clients -- it's free open source software. It is the low hanging fruit of CMS (software that lets you edit your own web pages while you are on site -- see sample here http://joomla.cubefree.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=54&Itemid=25). Has SE Friendly URLs. (I haven't turned mine on yet :). You can add Flash graphics and video to any page. Does well in the search engines, but blogging is still great.

  • Christian Messer
    Posted by Christian Messer, Portland, Oregon | Mar 20, 2008

    I can't really add anything - Susan hit all the right marks. Flash is great, but not for an entire site. It has it's place and function, but knowing how and where to use it is key.

  • Miles Johnson
    Posted by Miles Johnson, Seattle, Washington | Mar 24, 2008

    Thank you for all the great input. Based on this conversation, I have talked to my web guy and we are going to convert the site to flash for the graphics and html for the text. This should solve the challenges that I have had with SEO.

This forum is unmoderated, but please keep discussion courteous and not too far off topic.

Members posting in this topic

  • Nick Karnik
    Software Engineer
    Bellevue, Washington
  • Barry Hurd
    Social Media Promotion and Training
    Seattle, Washington
  • Susan Tilley
    Custom web designer, web site...
    Southern Oregon, Oregon
  • Justin Baker
    Seattle florist offering organic flowers...
    Seattle, Washington
  • Dennis Osorio
    Web Design, Computer Services and...
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
  • Miles Johnson
    Seattle Florist
    Seattle, Washington
  • Scott Brinkerhoff
    Web Site / Marketing Design...
    Marysville, Washington
  • Daniel Seirawan
    Web design/dev, Joomla CMS, Sugar...
    Seattle, Washington
  • Christian Messer
    Logo Design, Branding, Marketing and...
    Portland, Oregon

Post tags

  • Add tags to make this topic more relevant.