Sharing personal beliefs in business...?

Wow. That's a huge topic. I think it's vital for me to be my authentic self in business. But does that mean I want to share my sexual preferences with clients? No way! (Well, maybe if they're cute ;-) Seriously, though, would you really WANT to know that kind of thing about your web designer or your auto mechanic? If I'm paying them by the hour, I want them to be focused on my task, not their needs. Not only that, but many professions (medical and legal come to mind) have professional standards that make discussing sex with clients strictly verboten.

On the other hand, if I were you, Dane Ballard, Julia Saunders or Allena Gabosch, then my business IS talking about sex. So sharing becomes not only OK, but totally mandatory, and in fact, how well you share is one of the key factors that determines whether you succeed or fail in business.

So depending who you are and what you do for a living, everybody is going to answer that question differently. I'm thrilled to be part of a business networking group that welcomes the entire spectrum - from code-of-ethics bound professionals who can't talk about it to sex educators who must, and everything in between.

First off - great answer Dan.

I personally believe you keep religion (unless you are in business as a faith healer or something!), politics (unless your business is just that), and sex (again... ) - unless your business is that.

Personal life and business life must be a fine line you walk; but really it all it takes is common sense!

Rex

Yes, great answer, Dan.

Dan and I have talked a lot about this over the past year as Biznik has grown. we are members of the Burning Man community and Biznink's philosophy has been influenced by our experience with that community's culture. Our own tagline, Radical Self Promotion, is a nod to Burning Man's tags of "radical self expression," and "radical self reliance."

Biznik started out as a group of our indie friends getting together to support each others' businesses - folks who pretty much all adopted the 'radical self expression' bit and know where Dan and I stand politically, socially, sexually, culturally, and so on. Soon the group began to envelope new members who found us through the web and therefore neither knew us or any of the original posse.

We both like to say that Biznik is for folks who are as unapologetic about the way they run their business as the way they run their lives. But just because you're unapologetic about something does not mean that you need be indiscriminate about what details you voluntarily share with others.

Hellooo !! Business in India is serious business... Anyone here woudln't mix business with pleasure ... Forget abt sexual preferences at allll. I'ts just a class apart to do such things.. Not that i'm from Harvards or Whartons but still ... one could love their work ... but then,if you call it work ... then...

Most of all ... I wonder if the mentor of all "search" enthusiasts, Danny Sullivan thinks so !!

When I am doing business with someone, I pretty much do not want to hear about their "personal life". This is not to say that I don't want to know their authentic being--I most definately want to be doing business with a real person. (And it's not to say that I don't care about them as a human being.) In those spaces of time when I am doing business with someone, I want to focus on business, if only out of respect for the value of our time.

As has been pointed out here, many people's business entails things that might be defined as "personal" in other realms. However, even then, what gets revealed is generally more about the client than the provider, e.g., when I see my accupuncturist we talk about very personal stuff, but it's all my stuff--she's certainly not revealing to me her emotional state, or telling me about the condition of her chi.

Over time, as a relationship grows, the intial boundaries of propriety can change, and ever more personal stuff might be revealed. MIGHT be. It's a case-by-case situation.

Don't get fooled into following the client's lead, either. In fact, when clients start spilling their guts--about things which have nothing to do with the business at hand--I get wary.

You do bring up a very good point about the fish thing. Since I'm in the midwest, I will be on the look out for that. I never have really paid much attention to it, but that is a valid point.

I guess you could say the same for a pentagram on the Business flyers/ads. Does that mean they support and worship Satan as their master? Will they do business with a Christian?

Hey - as I said before, now you are mixing religion in where it's suppose to be business. I posted a blog about all of this, and you can read it here at this permalink - http://rexdixon.wordpress.com/2006/09/15/please-use-common-sense/

That in a nutshell is a good rule of thumb. You really need to focus on keeping your business, business. And your personal life, personal.

I think in the long run, no matter if you are in Seattle or the midwest such as I am - the long term benefits of keeping everything separate outweighs ANY assumed benefit of mixing the two.

Rex

Well, I was going to mention the "fish" thing, and then got conflicted about doing so, trying to be delicate and all in the realm of religion. Uh, I think we can look at displaying the Biznik logo in a similar vein. I would certainly filter my choices about to whom I give my business in response to who might be a Biznik, in the same way that I use the fish symbol to sort my choices.

However, these symbols do offer only a certain filter, they are no sound assurance of anything. We could assume that a "fish" logo would mean a certain ethic in business, but I have found that all of those fish-symbol businesses with whom I have (inadvertently) worked, have operated in anything but a reliable, honest, loving fashion. hmmm. (I say "inadvertently" because I've noticed their "fish" only after we've begun to do business.)

Which of course, brings us back around to that "relationship" element of engaging in business. The quality of the relationship gives more information than any advertisment or trumpeting of association with some group or another.

This is a subject that comes up a lot in my business. I think of a bookkeeper another professional like a lawyer, teacher, or accountant. So I try to stay focused on business and stay a bit distant. I feel like going off into deep personal or controversial discussions is an unnecessary distraction from my core business. I am also basically a pretty private person.

My point of view on my professional ethics and the way I choose to run my business is a part of my initial pitch to clients. It is unfortunately the case that I have been asked to do some dodgy things in the past, so I make sure that new clients know right off the bat that is "not on" (in a gentle way, of course). I try to use humor or funny examples from the past; no names of course.

Because I visit some of my clients weekly they are often kind enough to treat me sort of like a member of their staff. They invite me to holiday parties or the employees invite me to weddings, etc. This is nice and helps with the isolation I have heard that a lot of solo business owners can feel.

For the clients I visit less frequently (once a month or so) my arrival can be a bit of an event for the staff. They often want to chat about changes since my last visit. It can be awkward sometimes keeping these "water cooler" conversations short. But I bill by the hour and I don't want to waste my clients' time. I guess that is part of my professional ethics too.

When talking with owners or employees I usually apply the same rules of conversation I applied as an employee in the past. I try to keep it light. Discussions of family, health, pets, vacations, and hobbies are common. I try to avoid discussions, politics, or sex/sexuality. I actively avoid discussions that would criticize the management, discuss wages, the success/failure of the business, etc.

But some of my clients have sexual fetish-related businesses, or are political non-profits. These are where it gets interesting. Again I mostly try to stay on topic. But I will admit that sometimes I get distracted by a rant about Dubbya.

I don't hide my Judaism but I avoid arguments about religion. I have often wondered whether I could work for a political group I disagree with or a Christian client who tried to convert me. It hasn't come up yet but you know that it will.

Sorry if this is a ramble.

Personally I think sharing a bond of religion, ethnicity, or politics is a good way to strengthen business relationships.

But especially on topics of disagreement I try not to get too serious about it. For example on day a client had Rush Limbaugh on the radio, then I mentioned if it stays on that invokes my "hazard pay" clause.

The topic of sex is also fair game with some clients. I was in a PR firm yesterday where the cute new girl had a huge stack of playboy and penthouse on her desk for "research." Needless to say many jokes were cracked.

Of course I dislike the use of the "jesus" fish in business (isn't it pagan anyway?) because I think businesses should be chosen by the quality of the service. (and because its a silly religion) But I must admit having a business with the name "Selkowitz" in it certainly has helped me get my fair share of Jewish clients. (judiasm is silly too, we just usually have more of a sense of humor)

The fact is most of our clients have had someone prior to us who did what we do. Obviously for some reason they no longer work with them. I figure be different so you don't get associated - most techies are seen as poorly dressed introverted dweebs, so by being different we stand out and clients want to work with us.

Ultimately I'm the public face of my company and I think people do like dealing with people and companies with a personality rather than a cold hard corporate machine. Part of a personality is the fact that we have beliefs, we have ethnicity, we hopefully have a sex life, and we have political views. Its hard to show yourself as a person if you're hiding all that.

Great discussion you started here, Elizabeth, thanks!

Wanted to know if anyone involved in this discussion had a comment on Elizabeth's profile mugshot, and how she changed it from a photo of herself, to a sample of one of her nude paintings.

Interestingly, Elizabeth said in this discussion, "I'm a visual person. If there is a not a good picture of the person, I'm less likely to be interested in hiring them. They don't have to be attractive, but I've always felt that I can get a good feeling about someone based on the picture they choose to share with prospective customers."

So. What are all of your thoughts on what the Biznik profile mugshot should be? (The word "should" being used purely for discussion purposes.)

1) An identifiable photo of yourself. For the purpose Elizabeth stated above?

2) A representation of who you are/an expression of yourself. Like Elizabeth's profile mug; or Andrew Friedman, who chose to display the Liberty Bar logo; or even Bryan Lhuillier who chose to show a cute picture of a dog wearing an apple suit?

Or 3) a place holder that increases your ranking in the directory? (Biznik profiles without mugshots rank at the bottom of the membership directory regardless of how active you are on the site and at events.)

I have to admit I was surprised when I first saw the change a bit ago. Then I looked some more.

I think people should use what best represents their business. I like the fact that Andrew uses the Liberty logo, though I wish I could see who he is too. I'm not a fan when people use pictures that aren't them or don't relate to what they do.

As for if we should consider Elizabeth's logo acceptable, I think its okay as it does represent an aspect of what she does. We've accepted into the group adult performers, adult business consultants, spanker and cage builders, and polyamory "consultants" - I don't see how they could radically promote themselves in a PG manner.

I think if someone will choose to be offended, they can be offended easily by who's a member regardless of a 1mm tall nipple showing.

Furthermore I find it fine to offend some people - do we want Biznik run amok with prudes? (they can do rotary) The right people probably won't mind or will enjoy the colorful nature of the group. But we have to accept the fact some professionals will not want to do biznik because of who we accept as members and how they promote themselves.

My parting wise words: "You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette."

I'm reading "Rise of the Creative Class" right now in preparation for hosting a book club discussion, and one of the things that comes up over and over again in this fascinating book is that creative people place high value in diversity and open-mindedness.

"Many highly creative people, regardless of ethnic background or sexual orientation, grew up feeling like outsiders," and therefore, when looking for work or community, look for subtle signs that say "non-standard people welcome here."

By allowing non-standard and even somewhat sexual imagery in profiles, Biznik is displaying a message that says "creative people welcome here." At the same time, I hope that not too many members choose to do anything other than show pictures of themselves, because I really think it's important to know what other members look like. I review profiles prior to every networking event I attend to pick out who I want to meet, and it's much less useful when I don't have any idea what the person looks like.

Perhaps, Elizabeth, we could add a feature that allows you to upload some samples of your work that would display on your profile - then you could get your work out there AND show us your sexy face?

I think it might be fun if the archive of the discussion permanately displayed the mugshot that was used at the time of the post.

So the first couple posts made by Elizabeth would have the mug she used at the time this discussion was started (a sexy photo of her on a stool, turning to the side). The middle post would show the painting of the woman wearing little more than a pair of waist-high pantyhose. And her most recent post would display the painting that's there now of a woman kissing a man's cheek.

Don't get me wrong, Elizabeth - I wasn't suggesting you remove the semi-nude painting of the woman in the pantyhose, I was curious about what others' thoughts were.

I love that image. That image that made me want to commission a painting of myself for Dan's 40th birthday - and I love it too!

I wanted to start a discussion from the group to find out what the general thoughts were regarding one's profile mugshot.

Some people (like Andrew & Bryan) have chosen not to show photos of themselves. Others have posted photos of themselves standing 30' from the camera on a ski slope with a hat and goggles obstructing their face. Yet others have shown us great photographic representations of themselves and when I meet them at an event I know immediately how they are.

Would people be offended by a sample of one of Elizabeth's nude paintings in the mugshot area?

I totally support your choice to show one of your paintings instead of a photo of yourself, but I have to ask since you've been saying all along that you like it when people show a reprsentational photo of themselves. Why are you no longer showing an identifiable photo of yourself?

There seems to be a slight conflict revolving around the purpose of the profile picture. Is it supposed to be a depiction of you, or a depiction of your business? If the former, than there should prolly be rules like it needs to be a picture of your face so that people will be able to recognize you at an event or something. If the latter, than anything should be ok because this is more of a marketing choice.

Of course things are never so cut and dried - the person that posts a picture of themselves hittin the slopes might just want to portray themselves as an active, outdoorsy type, but of course there's a big marketing angle on a site like this, too. Like, this is someone who plays hard and (by implication) will work hard for you, too. Similarly, the displaying of religious iconography in a logo is on the one hand an expression of the business owner's personal devotion, but it's also a pretty bald-faced marketing choice - i'm one of you, and you should give me your business because of it. If you think that there's an underserved niche of satanists in need of a particular service, then it would make sense to incorporate some of that subculture's symbols in your marketing.

To me, I generally tend to be a bit put off by people that wear their (sub)cultural credentials on their sleeves, in social situations but even more so in business - but this is a personal choice. There are plenty of people who do the exact opposite, so creating a profile designed to attract someone with a certain set of interests (and that would possibly turn off a much larger group of people) can be a really good idea.

I think it depends on you and your business and if that belief is related at all.

Sharing my personal beliefs has personally been a great thing for me, especially on my website and blog. It really sets me apart from the rest of the typical web designers.

I also think of it as pre-screening my clients. I like to work with people that have certain attitudes and values. I use their reactions to certain comments to gauge whether or not I'd enjoy working with them.

One of my personal beliefs is that making lots of money is fricken' awesome. If I say that to a prospective client and they whole-heartedly agree, I know that I will enjoy working with them and I will receive my payment on time, in full with no whining.

Didn't someone say that the best way to make money is to be so outrageously interesting that people are automatically attracted to you. Then when they show up, bill'em.

If your personal beliefs help you be outrageously interesting (like being an outspoken polypositive), I say go for it!

Sure, you'll piss a few people off. But the ones who stick around will be worth the trouble.

Rebecca

I have been thinking about writing blogs in order to find other people with similar interests, but hesitating over this issue of how much to reveal about myself. As a psychotherapist, I am concerned that potential clients who look up my name on the internet may be put off by something I am thinking out loud about in a blog and decide not to see me for therapy. Within the relationship I form with a client, I tend not to disclose much about the rest of my life, but I do tend to be very up front about what I am experiencing moment to moment, which is information that is likely to be useful to the client. In other words, I serve my clients to the best of my ability by sharing my thoughts and feelings as this sharing seems to make sense in the context of the therapeutic relationship. So making my thoughts public seems to create at least the potential for someone to find out something about me that could be a major distraction for them. I can blog under a different name, but what I want to connect with others about is really the theory and practice of my work as a therapist, specifically a drama therapist. The other issue, of course is that as a therapist I can only talk about my work in the abstract since disclosing any information about clients would be a breach of confidentiality and an ethics violation. I wouldn't turn away any potential clients if I wrote an "advice column" type of blog, as I have seen other therapists do, but I'm really not interested in doing that. I feel it would defeat my purpose of finding others who are interested in thinking creatively about some of the same things I am interested in thinking about.