Using your real name

Dan and Lara,

Thank you for being so thoughtful about what will help biznik continue to be a vibrant and vital community as it grows. Clear, simple structures and rules don't suck--they will give biznik a stability and flexibility over time.

I've been dealing with Lara on a change in the guidelines for hosting events--it's been some extra work (and a few surprises), and I appreciate very much what you're doing.

Thanks, Barak

Hey Justin I know how you feel, my account got edited too :(

Makes me feel kind of violated, and mind you not the good kind of violated either. :)

I guess it is ok for other non paying members to have job titles, achievements, business names and websites in with their names while we paying members get edited.

I have seen many members with CMM, MA, LMP, MPA, CSA, CLTC, CFP, RDT, BCT, LCAT, MFA and PHD.

Here are a few of the more interesting ones I have come across:

(http://biznik.com/members/compuer-service)

(http://biznik.com/members/jamie-wwwjcicus)

(http://biznik.com/members/kristin-the-copywriter)

(http://biznik.com/members/liberty-on-15th-andrew-friedman)

(http://biznik.com/members/aubrey-lesicki-bs-cpc)

(http://biznik.com/members/fred-landers-ma-rdt-bct-lcat)

(http://biznik.com/members/stephanie-peacocke-ma-ccm-cprw)

Just to list a few…

It seems like a very easy compromise, although maybe labor intensive, would be for the Biznik staff to provide custom 301 redirects for those whose profiles got renamed. This would allow for folks to still find them during the transition. I am actually a little shocked that this has not taken place prior to forcing changes on profiles.

It would give Justin the peace of mind that his clients will still be able to find him during the Google re-index limbo and everyone else at least the courtesy of not breaking what they are building online.

At the same time, it maintains the rules that Dan and Lara want to enforce. It sounds like a win-win.

Arguing about the validity of using earned academic or licensing credentials as part of your name (a convention that goes w-a-y back) or about the validity of using your economic identity as your name will never resolve anything. (Whaa?!? Breath slowly and deeply.)

This sort of argument will go on and on with a whole lot of p.o.'d people and no resolution, because there is no pure and simple answer to the dilemma posed.

Of course, I don't want to be accused of trying to stifle free discussion so y'all are free to argue on as long as you want...as if you needed my permission ;-)

I'm pretty ignorant of the fine details of SEO so I can only sit here and listen to the exchange on the Google ranking effects of the new rule. I do believe that Biznik wasn't invented to be a tool for SEO 'tho that is a benefit that arises from Biznik membership.

The members challenging the need for more rules don't pose their challenge as a need for NO rules. However, this is another black hole of never ending argument about how many and what rules are sufficient for the purposes of Biznik. I suggest that discussion of rules reference the founding documents that define the purposes of the organization. All organizations have rules, even anarchist groups.

Could there be a solution that covers both the need of the community to know the real (legal) ID of its members and the need of individual members to be known in the world by their business identities?

Would a two line "name" work by moving the business name up in the layout?

Example: (sorry Justin, but...) Line 1: Justin Baker Line 2: dba Justin@BiZi Bee Floral

or flip the two lines with the business name first?

Example: Line 1: Justin@BiZi Bee Floral Line 2: Justin Baker, Owner (proprietor, partner, etc.)

I strongly believe that community requires real names. I also believe that we should be able to promote our business identities within the Biznik community and, to the world-at-large, from the Biznik platform.

I believe we can do it all.

Other solutions? Anyone?

Whoops! I made a huge assumption in my last post. I appologize to the community for going off in tech speak without at least explaining it.

A custom 301 redirect is used when you expire one url and create another to replace it. We'll use Justin's profile as an example since it seems to be the thing to do... So he went from something like: http://biznik.com/members/justin@bizibeefloral to http://biznik.com/members/justin-baker.

In the back end of the Biznik site there should be a way to institute a custom 301 redirect from the former to the latter so that he still gets found during the transition.

More on custom 301 redirects for those interested.

I had written something much longer than this (it was quite elequent actually), but since Dan posted a call to wrap up before I finished typing, I'll just say this:

I understand the frustrations. Been there - done that.

If anyone effected is interested, I would be glad to discuss SEO and other SEO options with you. Consider it a free consult.

I agree with the new policy of using only real names. I feel for those that have had to change because of this, but I need to point out that if one's Biznik profile ever felt like 'private space' that your intent was not in line with the Biznik ideal in the first place.

Honesty, and up front communication are what makes Biznik different from FaceBook, etc.

I must say as to the exceptions, sounds like Justin@bizibee should have been one. However, the conversation from both he and Dan now sounds over the top. Dan, you would have been better to have not included exceptions at all.

Thanks, els

I can't really say much about this, except to say that if Biznik is your only source of incoming links, and a simple page change is enough to bring your business to a complete standstill, it might be time to explore a few more online options. Great SEO strategies/online presences don't depend on one particular portal; a well-rounded approach that includes not only optimizing your website for keyword richness but also using a variety of social media where you can link your site to your name yields much better results.

And for the record, I'm completely for having a real-name rule; what I'd like is to see some of the features (for example, multiple weblinks, so I can link my blog as well, or forum signatures) be available to free accounts.

Dani... sorry I just can't resist a comment on your comment of "features.......for free accounts".

I sold cars at one point in my life and I was always flabergasted at the request for "free options". Duh?

Step up, pay for the features you want, and you will get the rewards you desire. The Biznik supporting membership fee is one of the best on-line bargins around.

Sorry for detracting from the theme of this thread, but some of the negativity that creeps in now and then pains me.

Real Names are good ! Additional features for those willing to pay for the development is also good. Anyone that want's to promote their business can do so with the tools and under the rules that Biznik has provided for us all at very small expense!

Although this should not be your only portal for word of mouth marketing, it is the best available. Let's all give Dan and his team a big Compliment and get off the complaining.!!!... Howard (my real name BTW)

hey everybody -

just wanted to let you know that i did the thing that bill is talking about above. from now on, anytime your url changes, if someone goes to the old one, they will be redirected to your new url, rather than getting a "page not found" error. this will work for everyone going forward.

justin and keith - i manually inserted entries for your old urls that dan edited, so if you go to those now they will send you to your current profile.

john

i would like to thank William Fulton for suggesting the 301 redirect, and i would like to thank Dan for promising to have John implement it.

it isn't a 100% fix.. i still don't get the benefit of my old profile's PR4 page rank pointing to my 3 sites.. but it does address my biggest logistical complaint: having people finding my old profile and not being able to see it when it when they click on it. basically, this would be a nice little bandaid, but why cut me in the first place?

i still see no harm in my profile the way it was.. i had my phone number, my address, and several members to vouch for me that i was a reputable business. i will point out that this business name/address may actually be more as we are incorporated. anyone wishing to file a complaint against our business would need those things to contact the AG for a consumer complaint way more than my name.

personally, i see no problem with the idea of grandfathering my old profile as it was. this would be a 100% fix, and it wouldn't require John to spend his precious time on an issue that only became inflamed by the way it was handled.

this to me exposed a bigger issue: RESPECT! you want to add a rule? fine, but implement it in a way that respects me as a member. Don't just approach me with a "So.. we wanna make changes around here..and you are our poster boy for it".. 12 hours later this profile edit was imposed on me with no discussion or dialogue on my part. all dialogue was conducted after the fact. Having a authority is one thing..learning how to use it is another.

i felt i was treated insensitively. Made me feel like i don't matter.And so what if i am in a small minority. To me my pain was REAL.

I suggest instead of trying to silence us you sit up and pay attention. If you really want to run a good site, then let your users tell you how. That's a far better way than trying to burden yourself with every detail, and taking a "My way or the Highway" attitude.

You need checks and balances here just like in govt.. If one person decides they are a God-King..it's not gonna work. With that kind of attitude you'll kill this site way faster than you can build it.

i've looked at Biznik as a home for me on the internet. My profile is like my room. unless you have reason to believe i am cooking meth, or endangering the entire neighborhood with the wattage of my stereo.. My profile should remain unmolested without my consent. end of story.

The easiest solution Dan is 1.to admit you a mistake 2. Since there are only 3 of us you edited give us our old profile names back 3. apologize and promise to try be more sensitive in the future. 4. Declare that all new profiles contain real names if you want to..5. Be consistent in your enforcement.. (several other profile were not manually edited when you imposed this sweeping change)

thanks John!

Thank you for the feedback everyone.

We see that we committed two mistakes: a) we did not provide enough of a grace period before we enforced the policy; and b) we took the liberty of editing members profiles. We are learning. It was inappropriate for us, the admin, to change someone's profile for them.

In the future, we will a) as a courtesy, generally provide a 7 day grace between warning members of a violation, and taking action; and b) rather than changing someone's profile, we will suspend their profile until they are ready to make the change themselves.

Please note that Biznik's Terms of Service states that we are permitted to change or delete content without warning. A grace period would be courtesy extended to our members.

I regret that we did not have the foresight to anticipate how a change in the name field would affect one's URL. This morning we created a 301 redirect for those who have been and will be affected by the new policy enforcement. (Thanks, John!)

This conversation has helped Dan and I clarify our policy.

Biznik is a community of people not a static listing of businesses. We are all here to do business, but Biznik is a community for business people. We want to protect Biznik from turning into a listing of business names. Part of doing business ethically is to be honest and trustworthy, therefore our policy will prohibit those trying to hide their identity or misrepresent themselves. I'm right in the middle of revising the Code of Conduct today so that it reflects these changes.

Only names of people may be listed in the name fields. Initials are permitted in the first name field, but not in the last name field. Exceptions will be made for those who have legally changed their name (i.e. Malcolm X.)

The only other exception we anticipate right now is stage names. Business titles such as, "Chief Show Off," will not be permitted. We will permit stage names when it's clear that the stage name identifies a person and not a business title or business entity.

To continue to use Justin Baker's profile as an example - BiziBee Floral, as a sole proprietorship, may be intimately connected to the individual, but it identifies a business entity. The floral business is not a person. Whereas, Xachary! is the stage name of a person. Withholding a name from the last name field is permitted in cases of stage names.

Lastly, as John Hays so deftly pointed out, allowing academic or licensing credentials is opening a can of worms, because where does it stop. Is "Certified Quickbooks Expert" the same as "MBA" or "LMP"? Therefore, the name field is for a first and last name only. The About You is a great place to list your credentials and academic titles.

Members with profiles in violation of this policy will be notified and given a 7 day grace period in which to comply.

We sincerely apologize for the insensitivity displayed when we took the liberty of changing the names in the profiles, and are in the process of correcting our errors.

and just to clarify on the technical side of the redirect thing, we do it in such a way that google and anyone else is told that it is a permanent change, and not the result of some monkey business on the site. so all of you page rank and seo kung fu is maintained in their eyes.

Sounds like a 100% fix - in that the new profile URL will have the same page rank as the old one.

On to editing our Terms of Service and Code of Conduct - which by the way states:

9. Changes to this Service Agreement

If we change this Service Agreement, then we will notify you of the change online through a post in Biz Talk. If you do not agree with the changed Service Agreement, then you must stop using the Service within two weeks of notification. You agree that you are solely responsible for reviewing the terms of this Service Agreement from time to time. If you choose not to accept the terms as revised and posted, you have a single two-week grace period from the date that you first visited the Service (with the revised terms posted), during which your use will be governed under the then-prior version of this Service Agreement and after which you agree not to use the Service.

I want to thank the Biznik community for bearing with us, as we work through these kinks.

Incidently The Code of Conduct which all members agreed to when they joined currently states the following:

You agree NOT to:

e. modify or falsify the source of any content or information, impersonate another individual, Biznik representative, or moderator, or falsely state or misrepresent affiliation with a person or entity;

I believe we need to clarify that "impersonating another individual" needs to include a line about "falsely stating or otherwise misrepresenting yourself."

All that being said, while the Terms of Service permits us to edit content without notice, it feels like it was inappropriate for us to take the liberty of changing someone's profile without proper notification and a grace period; and in the future that will be followed by suspension rather than editing. For this we apologize.

Thanks, Dan and Lara, for being so open and working things out. I'll admit I was a little concerned about the admininstrators editing users' profiles thing, so I'm really pleased that you discussed that and are revising your policy to meet your own integrity. Thank you for doing that.

And I see that you're asking people to remove their credentials from the last name field, so I'm trying to help set an example by removing mine. I hope that helps with the transition for others.

As I read though this thread, I am reminded of how any portion of my public communication can and will be used by others to decide whether they want to pursue a relationship with me- business or personal. Especially your rants;-)

To me, the essence of relationship marketing is to consistently communicate in a way that reinforces my business and professional image.

William Fulton, your contribution to this discussion impressed me with it's positive tone and practical solution. I especially love how you took time to explain yourself after offering up a solution to include others who don't know anything about this stuff. I'm impressed.

Howard,

Thanks for your feedback, but I don't feel I was being overly negative... also, I'm not really asking for any features that aren't already free on other services (Facebook, for one, allows blog importing to all members, and most forums I've been on allow post signatures without having to pay for it). And I wasn't making demands by any means; merely stating something I'd like to see.

In terms of "stepping up," right now I've been on Biznik a month, and, while I like it, I haven't been on it long enough to determine whether it's worth $10-24 a month to get the upgraded membership, especially since the network in my local area (Boston) is still so low, and I already have three other social networking accounts that I use regularly. I don't necessarily think it's fair to say that I should "step up" and start paying for the service if I haven't even had time to evaluate whether I like it yet.

Dani... I'm sorry if I offended you. Maybe in another thread, I may not have been so pointed. What I am really saying is that all the features you are asking for are available right now.

I feel that the fee is worth the investment far above any other on-line network sites I have seen. You would not be wasting your money if you did choose to upgrade. And, hopefully, you can see from this thread that despite some complaints, Dan, Lara, and John really do care to maintain the integrity of the site.

My best wishes to you... Howard

Phew ~ quite the read.

And, I am proud and pleased to be part of this community that CARES enough to put this energy into the discussion.

I have a slightly different part of this issue that kept me reading. For the past month or more I have had about 2 requests each week to “join my network” from people I have never met. I always reply, and ask if I am missing some connection. And then I decline with some form of this note:

“Ok ~ thanks. I am really trying to stay firm on the ethics of Biznik and what makes it valuable (in my opinion) ~ the TRUE knowing of a person that I recommend. I love the chance to get to know people on a personal level, not just a LeTip or BNI "network for points" program. I hope we DO get to meet in the near future!”

With this reply I have been called snotty, rude, pretentious and bitchy. (I have also had 2 members reply that they understand and also hope to meet in person one day soon.)

Biznik is – to me – AUTHENTIC. This really fuckin matters to me!!!! REAL names. REAL people. KNOW WHO YOU ARE WORKING WITH AND REFERRING!

I don’t know the best “resolution” to this issue of the names, but am glad the discussion is getting people really talking about what THEY see as Biznik basics.

For those possibly interested: my vote is for 100% real names, I even take some issue with the stage names, but don’t feel I’m educated in the industry to take a stand on that one. I have “MA” on my business cards, but am fine not having it on Biznik. Just me. Annie. Now take the time to get to know me and decide with intention if you want to do business with me.

Ok, didn’t expect to spend an hour on this tonight and need to go pack. I hope no one leaves Biznik due to this, that would be absurd.

I thank you once again Dan & Lara (John A. too!). If you hadn’t created something fabulous, we wouldn’t care so much. And….while I’m singing praise – John Hayes, can I stage name you “Voice of Reason”? Gawd love ya, man.

I feel better now. Thank you for listening and taking appropriate action Dan, Lara, and John.

Upon reflecting on the comments of my fellow members i have decided i don't have a real big problem with the real names notion.

I guess my real beef was how it was being implemented without fully considering the impact that it may have on us as existing members.

This discussion I hope was a learning experience for all of us, and in the end i hope it makes our community stronger and brings us all closer. You guys are a kind of family to me. Families don't always agree, but they work things out and continue working together.

Dan, i accept your apology. I hope you will forgive my "bull in the china cabinet" approach.. I really care about what happens here, and i hope things go smoother in the future.

John thanks for your hard work. Any idea how long Google takes to assign PR to the new page once the redirect is in place?

For those of you who don't know me well and have been following this thread.. Normally, i am a very reasonable and rational guy. This is only the second rant/fit i have indulged in the 18 mos or so i have been here. While i may have articulated myself with excessively strong metaphors at times i never once resorted to petty name calling or curse words.

Also it was not my intent to paint Dan as one who always acts with blatant disregard for the feelings of others. Rather my goal (if you would call it that) was to encourage him (and Biznik at large) to adapt a more considerate approach as it pertains to our profiles. I stood up and fought for this for the same reason i volunteered and stood up and fought for this country. i felt it was the right thing to do. I am pleased to hear that no one else should ever have to log in to a profile they themselves didn't alter.. If i was out of line at any time i am sorry.

Basically, this particular issue put a hornet in my bonnet, but i am ready to move on. Heather and I have really been busting our butts trying to get ready for the Xmas season.. For those of you who have ever worked in retail you will already understand the pressure we are under.. Hopefully, soon it will all pay off and i'll be able invite you all over and show you the results.

I hear you on the "join networks" requests from strangers, Annie. I have a similar canned message I use as a reply now because I get tired of spending time drafting a new, courteous reply to each one. I honor you for standing your ground and seeing the true value of knowing people in your network.

And Justin, I'm glad to see your last comment. I appreciate that you fought for what you thought was right, and I think it's admirable that you're as willing to own up to your mistakes as the creators of our community are.

Truth is, none of us is perfect, and I'm grateful to be part of a community where that's understood. We take risks, we strive, we fall down, we stand up and apologize, we try again. Hell yeah.