comments

Yay! super excited!

Yes! Great idea, and what a beautiful way to give to community, thank you for being leaders with a positive vision!

Ok, so now we are getting somewhere! Can we all agree that the Fed must go and that fractional reserve lending is fraud and should be punished under the law as fraud?

If we start with the non-divisive issues first then we can begin to create actionable steps. And creating a voting issue as well as clarity on what to replace it with is hugely helpful. Taking clear steps where there is agreement makes it easier to get clarity on the remaining steps and issues.

Does anyone have any reasoned arguments against "getting rid of the Fed" and holding fractional reserve lenders accountable for participating in fraud?

Can we all agree that Jefferson was right and create some movement here instead of just talk. Let's talk if there is a need, and let's act now if we can.

If we were to create a petition or an organization to facilitate this or a blog campaign or to support a senator like Ron Paul who gets this, or something else, what is the next best-move to take?

Should we give the banks a 60 day period to get all their affairs in order and "come clean" with what is really happening. Should we create a new compliance initiative that disolves the Fed and fractional reserve lending. What would it actually take to do this?

@Kelleen, thankyou again for bringing up a topic that people are clearly passionate about. I welcome your further input and perspective.

@Brian I am also a beginner in economics, and am grateful to learn more. I am still interested in greater clarity on the interest portion.

I think that money earned for services is created money but wages are monitored by the government via income tax. The same is true of goods from business reports. These are both accounted for as part of the Gross National Product yes?

Does the government account for the increasing value of interest (specifically from bank loan interest) in the same way it does for wages?

As I understand it, (other major objections aside) profit is somewhat justified by the "increase of wealth" or value created by the good or service. Value is matched to this perceived value increase by printing more money to match the new created value. The problem with interest is it is not a good or service so more value is created in paper but not in real value. The same would be true for goods or services that are equally pointless. The problem with both is that there is no modifier upon the money that makes it worth more when it is used for rebuilding the economy, or preserving clean water, no modifier makes the money worth less when it is used to create a toxic children's blanket. When profit and interest reward the fleecing of America that is an unacceptable design.

@ Brian, On interest:

I am intrigued by your interest in interest.

Do you believe that there is money in the system to pay back interest? It is my understanding that interest is created as debt to the borrower (created out of nothing)and no actual money ever existed in the market place or in circulation to ever repay it. So even if I get to be the lucky guy in the game of musical chairs, someone still loses their shirt, or their house.

For now: I support interest that is spent on causes that the community has full initiative to choose as it sees fit.
I think that is a great idea, an improvement for sure. Do you know of Credit Unions where this is happening in the US?

For Soon:
I support investment into

Yeah me too, I have yet to be admitted into the club Lol.

I'll do some investigating...

Another element to the issue of "protecting our money" or valuables: A friend of mine was touting 2009 as the "Year of Transparency!" Frankly I hope it is the dawning of the Age of Transparency. Securing Valuables in a locked up box where only a few people have access to see what is happening with it who aren't you -the supposed owner of the valuables- seems kinda dumb to me. Like doesn't that mean that corruption is more likely? I would rather have it known where it is- And me known for the good works that I do and my device known for the good that it offers: so that it can be protected by the people who all have an ability to watch over it and who care about me and the my device and how it can benefit the community This is the power of Transparency.

At some point people started putting more information about themselves out there on the web. And most of them are still alive.

So what if Big Brother is Watching, Big Deal, We can watch too! And they can watch till they realize that their old dinosaurian ways are over and find that they have a place at my table as long as they behave. They are gonna need all our help to overcome the neurosis that created the monstrous mistaken beliefs they lived into. And who gives power to "big brother", We did through the banks! And so what if "they"other people, corporations or countries are watching, I want them to! I want them and everyone else to scrutinize and add their constructive insight to help co-create a better way of life that works for each of us with many options and possibilities and tremendous freedoms. We can learn from eachother.

More open sharing of information resources and communication technology sharing and collaboration is scary at first, but all things being stories we project:

I find it silly to conclude that a their is somehow safety for valuables in a closed-off-resource-culture. What safety or support is there for people who are hiding their valuables, hoarding real resources till they spoil and protecting confidential information in private institutions and safeguarding proprietary devices for patentable profit in a competitive planned- obsolescence world?

The best place to have your valuables is out in the open allied with a community of informed confident and supportive people who understand your valuables and devices and are protective of them and probably helped you invent them and fund you as a matter of coarse. Such a free people who value transparency will also allow great ease of access to resources, provide real education for people and care for their basic needs, it would be more fun and with others having access to adequate resources their is little to no need for most crimes or laws.

We have become more transparent socially via online social networking, now lets find out what happens creatively when we work together to create something that lasts and benefits everyone while utilizing transparency and free, efficient, open, honest communication and decision making by consent to leverage the wisdom of the group for humanitarian efforts. What to do next? Find Allies and create groups in your community to brainstorm crowdsource, investigate and research new possibilities for sustainable living including a redesign of economy to be linked to resources and transparency on all levels of current monetary institutions

My sketchy initial findings On the credit unions so far...

Some are independently owned -others not. Some are linked to organizations like Boeing has it's own credit union the Boeing Employees Credit Union. I also understand that credit unions are more likely to keep money in the hands of the groups that start them and some even pay dividends to the members and do not funnel extra profits to the credit union because the credit union is owned by the members.

There is still the problem of the money being invested in corporations to create artificial profit instead of real lasting value. But at least you know a little more clearly who your group is investing in and where the profits are going.

I would love to find out if we have any takers on creating a service that writes checks for yet has no access to your real deposit money and makes no profits. Something like this could be run as a social community service similar to the post office. I believe our key to sane and sustainble currency (while that lasts) is that real resources always need to be linked to our system of value. By this I mean real resources from the earth: energy, food, materials etc. I also believe that our system of value should reflect and by design funnel resources to building green infrastructure for the planet. I believe this is the idea behind GreenSociety.net I am not sure how they are doing on that score yet, since they are relatively new and I just found out about them.

@ Brian, I also believe entity creation or "artificialization process" has been a problem in our money and our "corporate entities" . A very weird concept for sure. I may be preaching somewhat to the choir here...

Money used to be worth less than people because it was based on something of real value that would spoil such as grain. This was a "demurment economy". Since money would spoil the incentive was to invest in things that would last - thereby driving people to invest in infrastructure as quickly as possible so that their efforts at harvest were not wasted due to spoilage. Their was no profit or interest and human effort had more value than artificial entities. Now we have the reverse of this. Artificial "money" is backed by something but is that something of value? No. Even that is artificial. Does it lose value to encourage people to invest in lasting real infrastructure such as the best housing and gardens and universities that can be built with current resources and technology? No we have another artificial thing called "interest" which rewards people for keeping their artificial value units in an artificial computer offering the promise of more artificial value if it sits around in an artificial investment in an another artificial entity in an artificial market. Then all this artificial stuff is hyped up as more valuable than real stuff or people's effort or even people themselves. Then all this artificial stuff gets the cream raked off of the top by the Artificial unit creation people first. And those who are the masters of powerful entities second.

I also believe that many people do not like the system the way it is set up, yet are invested in it to the nines.

How can we make it work for people who are in corporations to desire reforming the ethereal yet powerful rights given to corporations?

Here are some links to a modified improved online barter system called Dibspace and an alternative currency system called Green Society. They are both still in the early stages, but some very exciting aspects are present check it out:

Dibspace.com

https://dibspace.com/session/new

and GreenSociety.net

http://www.greensociety.net/

I'd be curious to know what you all think.

@ Brian, I appreciate your laying out more details about what it would take to create change at the level of cause with the banks. Do you feel the same is true of Credit Unions? I know they have their own back-up insurance system similar to banks. I am not willing to settle for the lesser of two evils. And also, every bit helps.

As to the education on the subject of money and how our banks work I recommend Zeitgeist II Addendum
We could hugely benefit from more well produced and informed online videos on the subject. Here is the link in case you haven't already seen it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7065205277695921912

@Kane I really think you would love seeing how sociocratic method is being used in corporations. I totally agree that the answer is in having top down distribution centrally (along with independant currencies too) and bottom up governance. Sociocratic methods would work well via social networks to implement this.

here is a link to the wiki on Sociocracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociocracy

Oh by the way, it seems that the central bank is largely supported by three corporate banks (not that corporations are bad- their are perhaps just forced into a corner. So as far as I can tell boycotts still work! If we all boycott JP Morgan Chase, (and Washington Mutual which is sadly now owned by them), Citibank, and Bank of America this will show contempt for their actions.

It seems like when a country gets demoralized or depressed enough due to economic fleecing, they for a while seem to fear their government and do not use their right to create change. This is a great country in a great world with some really archaic systems still in operation.

I was struck by Michael Moore's depiction of France's culture in the Movie "Sicko" where they have a single payer health-care system medicine and other excellent systems in place and the government fears the people, they stand up for their rights. We can peacefully create change, and I believe we all need to get more involved!

Brian thnks for your last post, Any time there is too much separation from the people and the system of value we create problems.

Sociocracy I believe would work great for that too.

There is a book called "We the People" on the subject of Sociocracy as well as some helpful Wiki pages on the topic. It is just landing in the US as a concept.

I also like what you had to say about Fiat Currency and freedom to use alternative currencies. What would it take to turn that around?

Brian, I really Like what you are saying and would like some details about what is needed to implement such a series of changes.

Don, I have an idea and I wrote an article about it which I am hoping will be published currently it is on my Profile page Called:

"Rate the Banks: Use Social Networking to Create Conscious Banking!"

Brian, my initial goal is deprive the worst offenders in the banking world of some sources of their immediate profits and show the banking world that We The People are ready to make some changes: ethics and social and environmental integrity is the new gold standard. I agree that most of the banks out there are pretty much all alike and as far as I can tell are still connected to the central bank which is at the crux of the problem. I also support real deposits over these debt agreements. And while we are in this system and redesigning it to a more Jeffersonian Design I also recommend that we use our right to boycott to at lest curb some bad behavior and show other people that the banks and government belong to us, we do not belong to them. I believe that this will generate hope for so many Americans who understand how badly we need economic redesign to see that we are a wise people ready to act and support a worthy new economic model through it's birthing process. A new day has dawned, Corporate America now belongs to social networking which is in the hands of We the People. If the Corrupt Corporate Elite do not understand this they will find out soon enough when the social-preneurs replace them with a more stable system of decision making is in place.

Ratings is a first step.

Sociocracy could be a second step which is working well in other countries as a "coming-to-agreement" model that eliminates greed, ego, and red-tape and without rhetoric or ideology it focuses people on working toward the common good quickly and efficiently.

On a positive note, I have begun rating banks and credit unions based on: Social conscience, independently owned status, and their participation in predatory lending and economic warfare.

I invite you all to do this too. And you can create free blogsites on wordpress.com and do the same or rate banks and the business who bank with them on Yelp and include information on their social and environmental record as well as their participation in Economic Warfare.

It is my contention that banks with conscience who are independant and owned by the people with transparency are more sustainable and economically stable. Rather than create panic, lets create a Renaissance of Real Value and guide people to good credit unions, alternative currencies, and people with vision and technical skills enough to redesign our banking system with greatest possible ease and without disadvantage to anyone.

In order for these banks and credit unions and visionaries to thrive they need a savvy public who supports them to pledge their commitment to have a voice to investigate the banks and the supposed investigators of these banks- and make it a voting issue in the poles as well as to commit to putting our money in institutions who care about people over profit.

We can have cash with conscience, and we are the ones to create it! Business people who care with a positive focus and knowledge and tools and resources and voice and opinions and voting rights and who are connected in networking circles and social media. We can create it!

I started this rating on my website http:DaeninWellness.com under my Daenin's Picks Tab.
I included bank ratings as a part of my wellness site because I find that no one else I know is really doing this who I know is not bought by big corporations. I have begun this, because as a wellness educator and service provider, I see how people are being rejected due to lack of ability to pay for basic health needs. I choose to do something about it.

I really support the trend of many of the comments of "working on your own portion of the economy"

We can rate the banks and also decide what businesses we work with based on what banks they choose to work with too.

Becoming aware of The Social conscience of banks is an opportunity for everyone in every industry to create Good Will among ourselves and prove to each other that people and the environment mean more than profit, and we can all live far more abundantly with a healthy and ethical economic system whose money is not being chanelled toward War.

Money in Financial institutions that we support or help create can be channeled toward meaningful and necessary causes such as: Excellent Health Care for everyone, Education that teaches people critical thinking how to learn and think independently and empathic skills. Environmental Technology Infrastructure (such as Geothermal, wind, solar, and tidal) Permaculture for lasting food supply after peak oil makes transport of food too expensive to ship and our population continues to grow. *Building things to last and eliminating Planned Obsolescence.

Currently I have a list of Credit Unions I am considering, I could really use as much insight as possible on these banks and am looking for how to get reliable information on their social conscience and integrity.

Hey Kelleen, Thanks for the positive notes on the safety of our money in bankers hands. All bankers are not evil, and financial panic is not what anyone I know wants. I do strongly believe that we can improve our way of working with finances and upgrade our existing money=debt, planned-scarcity-interest economy. Within a fractional reserve banking system scarcity is a part of the design. There is no money to repay the interest charged on loans and that is the way the European system of banks was created to gain assets from those who could not repay money and debt that was created out of nothing.

I am happy to hear that their are some good credit unions out there and good banks and bankers.

I would love to emphasize these more positive institutions.

Which banks and credit unions are more socially responsible?

How is this information verified?

Which banks and credit unions do not engage in a fractional reserve banking system?

Which banks do not endorse or take any part in economic warfare and predatory devaluation of foreign countries assets?

In the short term it is good to know that our money is "safe." In the long term I would like to see socially responsible bankers and credit unions celebrated for doing their part in bringing us out of the dark ages of predatory post-industrial Corporotocracy. We of course need to do our part. In a global economy we as a people are coming to realize that global economic prosperity can only happen with social and environmental conscience, transparency, cooperation and community awareness. This has not been a part of many a banking institution or the central banking system, IMF, The World Bank, or the fractional reserve banking system. If you can show me leaders in the Banking world who get this and are really doing something good and care about the environment and people over profit- I will promote them!

I am all for a graceful transition.

I am all for positivity as long as it does not lead to lack of involvement and the maintaining of what is really not working.

Far from looking at bankers and corporations as being bad guys. I choose to support the Corporations and Banks that "get the problem" and have a clear vision, the technical know-how and support to deliver a solution.

I am curious if you know of any banks or credit unions like this?

This is a great idea, I would love it if you did one in Seattle featuring a green designed biz host. So like a building using green materials and low VOC Paints solar panels etc.

Awww, this sounds great. I hope you do it again!

I just found this.

Please keep me posted

Daenin

I noticed you stopped listing the week numbers. Why is that?

Is their going to be a week five for west siders? I'm going to week 4 and week 3 was great.

I am fighting off a cold, drats. I so wanted to come today! Have a great meeting everyone. Last week was wonderful!