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If I'm not mistaken, Saddam switched to the Euro...

What would the difference be between treating your deposit as a your personal property vs theirs? How would that look? What effect would it have?

2 things I'd like to get a take on...

The value of the dollar is heavily influenced by the price of oil because it requires nations to buy up dollars to purchase oil. How does the printing of money relate to an absolute devaluing of the dollar (less than 1% original value) and a value of the dollar relative to other markets?

1. I'm not so sure that I am absolutely against fractal reserve lending. Doesn't it open up the flow of capital and allow more options for more individuals. The fault that I see with it is that the note of debt is held by private interests and not the collective whole. If we kept the money and debt in the same pool, couldn't we give the same level of capital freedom with equanimity?

How funny,

I signed up for greensociety.net about a month ago after making a connection with the creator, but I have yet to have my account activated.

I am curious what others think about the concept of supply and demand for value of currency. Obviously very tight controls would be required for the printing of money and the setting of interest rates.

How can we make it work for people who are in corporations to desire reforming the ethereal yet powerful rights given to corporations?

The body has to break down and the mind will realize that it can't continue ignoring it without destroying itself as well.

This is occurring right now. The economy has crashed. The people can't continue to support that which is neglecting them and therefore the heads are open to giving back.

hmmmm.

In your stating that something is "completely wrong" do I sense that maybe how you perceive and how I perceive are different. In reading your post, I see that your personal history has associated those words in ways that keep you from seeing a truth with a small "t" that I perceive. I use the mind and body because they are the most intimate forms available to each individual representing the most fundamental concepts in the universe and their integrity is complete. In understanding how they operate and relate in a deductive way is different that an inductive way, and is non-lingual in nature and therefore to spend time with it anywhere outside of introspection is simply begging for discourse, so I will leave that alone.

"Terms like top-down, bottom-up, and transparency do not address the facts, and are not part of any solution for this particular aspect of the problem. Those ideals are all important for establishing laws against force, such as laws against murder, slavery, and theft, and for deciding the punishment for violations. But those principles are useless when it comes to the economy."

In how you have just applied them, I would agree, but that is simply due to how you relate to how they are used and not to how I intended them. I sense that you may wind up getting lost in the fractal nature of exponentially increasing information if you do not know how to disengage with the form something takes to see the generic principle in which it came from.

It seems that your desire to find a deposit only banking system that all banks should be modeled after (if that is your position) would be your mattress. I don't see how we could establish credit, free capital, and have an efficient system with this model. If I'm not mistaking Europe had a very similar model for which they longed to be in the US because with the freeing of capitol comes the freeing of individual choice.

I also don't know much about credit unions, but the principles as I understand are that the wealth/debt remains in the community so that there is a much greater commitment to the local community. To me the wealth and debt need to be created and held in the same arena and not wealth for some private interests with debt for those not in their circle.

@Daenin... As I'm certain you already know, it simply reflects th relationship between the mind and body.

a brief comment on corporations.

In a corporation, management is separate from ownership and management has a fiduciary obligation to the owners/shareholders so long as they do not break the law. This setup is a recipe for catastrophe as a corporation is legally bound to act in unethical ways. When you compound this with the rights as citizens that we have given them, a corporation can outlive humans, a corporation has great advantage over individuals and can raise the barriers to entry for young entrepreneurs. I think that corporations have incredible benefits, but the costs need to be transparent and limitless charters needs to be revisited.

Right on Brian...

I agree with you in most part. Especially about the fiat currency issue. I can't say that the banking institution as a whole is managed federally, due to the fact that as the banking institution has gained power over the years, the seats of the public institutions have covertly come under the great influence of interested parties. So even though we have a fed reserve, those who run the fed reserve are not fully liberated to make decisions based on public good from a purely analytical perspective. In fact, it seems entirely possible that the fiat shift came from these powers in order to create the looting of real wealth as we are seeing today.

The issue of a fiat currency is primary. However, there are community currencies that can be used, Bread is one of them, although I am unaware of contractual binding implications.

I disagree about completely dissolving a centralized system. There are too many advantages to it. It would be like not having a mind to tell the body which direction to move. But at the same time, we can't have a mind that has it's desire detrimental to the body or they both collapse. I personally see that the system needs to be centralized with flow top-down, but needs to have have a bottom-up management system. Meaning full transparency, locally elected managers who get elected upwards the banking ladder. We can't simply disregard a national perspective, nor can we thrive with a simply local perspective. We need to integrate the two.

I truly also believe that a government does not have power that an individual does not have inherently, although the powers are systemic rather than individual. We are at a time in which technology can support a very efficient governing body for the people. And it seems to me that with as many unemployed as there are, now would be a great time to make that move.

Thank you Kelleen for the information and platform. The points you make are very true and should put many minds at ease. I would also like to thank both Brian and Don for some very straight talk.

Capitalism is an amazing system and wouldn't be possible without banks. Banks, however should be managed by public agencies for the public good and not the profit of few. The longer people listen to the "bankrupt" ideology of free market banking, the deeper in debt they will find themselves. This has been shown throughout history and we still haven't learned our lesson.

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." -Thomas Jefferson, (Attributed)

This crisis is an excellent time to collect ourselves, look to history to gain perspective, and reorganize our systems. We have a rare opportunity to recreate our nation into the nation our ancestors dreamed of. Seek the truths that are self-evident and give them counsel over the truths that are insisted against intuition. If this is done, you will find you have greater power and ability to navigate through this complexity than you thought.